# Absolute WTF, 'what were they thinking' plots and subplots in old movies and TV shows **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** theater-stage-dance\ **Created:** [December 27, 2023, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229 "2023-12-27T13:58:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/201 "2024-01-01T05:31:45Z")
Fully Granted @NDP - the special makes that point as well, in that anyone and everyone could and did have a variety show - it was cheap (well, if not Star Wars), accessible, and generally safe for all ages. The problem was the people who remained in control (and most of the actors) knew variety shows, but knew little to nothing about Star Wars. I basically grew up -with- Star Wars, seeing it on my father’s lap is one of my earliest partial memories. But that’s why I granted in my mention that it’s weird issues left it short of an “Absolute WTF” per the OP, EXCEPT the Wookie transpecies VR porn. That’s WTF by the standards of the day. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/202 "2024-01-01T05:44:32Z")
I was 11 when the holiday special came out. Of course I watched it when it came out. I haven’t been able to watch it for more than a few minutes since. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/203 "2024-01-01T05:50:43Z")
I was 13 when I first saw the movie. Y’all are making me feel old. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/204 "2024-01-01T06:28:15Z")
…Full. Metal. Jacket. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/205 "2024-01-01T07:01:01Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > I have not seen this documentary but I have read about it and listened to a segment about it on NPR and the one fact about “The Star Wars Holiday Special” is something I’ve known for a long time: In terms of awfulness, it didn’t even stand out in 1978. It wasn’t all that different from all the other cheesy variety shows and specials that were on TV at that time. Within a few years, variety shows and specials were all but extinct on American television, and “The Star Wars Holiday Special” is just one of many examples of why that happened. The special is more incongruous than anything else. So many people take it so seriously, for years there wasn’t that much actual content, it’s sort of a goofy offshoot. But the special is more boring than it is laugh out loud bad. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/206 "2024-01-01T07:13:37Z")
> [@solost](#): > > I watched the non-Riffed version first, then the Riffed version. If I recall, the Riffed version, though I love RiffTrax, was almost superfluous because the Star Wars Holiday Special is such a parody of itself already. I tried watching it a few years ago. Despite hearing how horrible it was, I was not prepared and I couldn’t watch it all the way through. Other than the cartoon, there is nothing good about that special. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/207 "2024-01-01T08:57:57Z")
The Lego SW holiday special does nothing but make fun of the original and 90 percent of everything else in the SW universe … ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2024, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/208 "2024-01-02T22:09:15Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I’m pretty sure this was Dick Cheney’s inspiration for the 2003 Invasion of Iraq. (Referring to _Stripes_). Ha! ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2024, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/209 "2024-01-02T22:33:57Z")
> [@solost](#): > > I was 13 when I first saw the movie. I was 17, ya whippersnapper. I eagerly awaited it! I had been reading about it in Starlog for some time. It’s got Harvey Korman! Bea Arthur! Jefferson Starship! All the original cast! A new Boba Fett cartoon! Who IS this new intriguing character they promise us in Empire? Now we can know! It actually wasn’t as painful the first time, but it wasn’t good, and we knew it. It’s how I felt seeing The Phantom Menace. They really aren’t that different, ya know. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2024, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/210 "2024-01-02T22:44:51Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > It actually wasn’t as painful the first time, but it wasn’t good, and we knew it. It’s how I felt seeing The Phantom Menace. They really aren’t that different, ya know. I could sit through The Phantom Menace wheras I couldn’t finish the Holdiay Special. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/211 "2024-01-03T13:14:59Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I could sit through The Phantom Menace wheras I couldn’t finish the Holdiay Special. I agree. I got hold of a bootleg copy of the Holiday Special (is there any other kind of copy?) and could NOT watch it all in one sitting. It really was too awful and painful. Until I brought it to a sort of festival of bad SF (not my own regular Bad Film Fest) and showed it to people who had never been exposed to its painful radiations. It turns out that MST3King the thing makes it bearable. Try it! ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/212 "2024-01-03T13:48:19Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > > [@solost](#): > > > > I was 13 when I first saw the movie. > > I was 17, ya whippersnapper. I eagerly awaited it! I had been reading about it in Starlog for some time. It’s got Harvey Korman! Bea Arthur! Jefferson Starship! All the original cast! A new Boba Fett cartoon! Who IS this new intriguing character they promise us in Empire? Now we can know! > [@CalMeacham](#): > > I agree. I got hold of a bootleg copy of the Holiday Special (is there any other kind of copy?) and could NOT watch it all in one sitting. It really was too awful and painful. Just to be clear, I was 13 when I saw the **movie**. I probably was 14 when the Star Wars Holiday Special came out, but for whatever reason I missed it. I wouldn’t end up seeing the holiday special until many years later. I would have totally watched that, and wouldn’t have found it too weird, I think, as a 14 year old. Having loved the movie, and grown up on The Carol Burnett Show and sitcoms, I may even have enjoyed it as a 14 year old. _ **And** _ a Boba Fett cartoon? BONUS!! When I finally did watch the SWHS, maybe just 5 or so years ago, I found it to be an absolute fascinatingly weird period document. It was a strange time; from what I understand, the movie turned out to be unexpectedly popular, yet absolutely no one was predicting what a cultural juggernaut the Star Wars universe would still become. So the thinking was, let’s cash in while the cashing in’s good. The result was a thrown-together mish-mosh of comedy variety styles with a mix of fading comedy icons mugging it up alongside a bored as hell Harrison Ford and a stoned Carrie Fisher. All stitched together with a through-line plot of Chewbacca and his family celebrating “Life Day”. Watch those Wookie railings, I don’t think they’re quite up to code! I later watched the Riffed version of the SWHS, but to me, though I normally love MST3K and Rifftrax, it was almost _ **too much** _ parodic goodness for me. like putting frosting on a brownie. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/213 "2024-01-03T14:38:38Z")
I think the entertainment industry has gone overboard in censoring satire that mocks bigotry, for fear of offending the clueless bigots in the middle of nowhere who take the jokes literally. This is not a new phenomenon. I remember watching the premiere episode of All in the Family as a kid in 1971 and instantly grasping that the show, created by and starring liberal non-bigot actors, was ridiculing racism, misogyny, and homophobia, not endorsing them. Yet, even back then, there was a wave of negative criticism from humorless, dim-witted journalists who claimed the show was promoting bigotry. Why pander to the lowest common denominator (i.e. moronic bigots)? Satire is a powerful tool to expose bigotry and spark meaningful discussions about it. I admire stand-up comedians like Ricky Gervais who keep using sharp, edgy satire in their acts, despite the cancel culture. Of course, it helps to be hilarious, which he is. On the other hand, there have been plenty of non-satirical works in days gone by that _are_ bigoted and cringe-worthy. I agree with you that they should not be banned today. Shining a light on them also exposes bigotry, not unlike turning on the kitchen light-switch and seeing the cockroaches scurry away. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/214 "2024-01-03T15:38:52Z")
It is also the only musical from the period I know of that has a song about beastality. (Lonesome Polecat) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/215 "2024-01-03T22:04:20Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > I remember watching the premiere episode of All in the Family as a kid in 1971 and instantly grasping that the show, created by and starring liberal non-bigot actors, was ridiculing racism, misogyny, and homophobia, not endorsing them. Yet, even back then, there was a wave of negative criticism from humorless, dim-witted journalists who claimed the show was promoting bigotry. It worked on two levels- the highbrow Liberal elite realized it was a satire, while the lowbrow conservatives thought it was played straight. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/216 "2024-01-03T22:45:13Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Despite hearing how horrible it was, I was not prepared… I had the same experience. I realized that everything I had heard was insufficient to relay just how bad it was and made me question everything I thought I knew or understood up to that point. It was an Epiphany. And not a good one. It was like the time a fire extinguisher fell on my Big Toe. The Big Toe that had the nail ripped off about 2 days earlier, exposing the nail bed. I thought I knew what pain was. I was wrong! I wasn’t even close! ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/217 "2024-01-03T22:51:13Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > When I see Kevin James with his actual wife, Movie quote incoming: Her? And him. That makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/218 "2024-01-03T23:16:45Z")
There were t-shirts calling for “Archie Bunker for President” at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/219 "2024-01-03T23:18:39Z")
From what I understand Dukes Of Hazzard played the same way. Northerners saw the show as a funny parody of Southern/redneck cliches while Southerners themselves took it completely seriously. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2024, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/220 "2024-01-04T00:12:52Z")
No, Southerners knew it was a parody, but they thought the cliches were funnier than the Northerners did. Northerners laughed at it, Southerners laughed with it. Likewise, rural folk loved _The Beverly Hillbillies_ more than city folk did. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229.md?page=12)