# Absolute WTF, 'what were they thinking' plots and subplots in old movies and TV shows **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** theater-stage-dance\ **Created:** [December 27, 2023, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229 "2023-12-27T13:58:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2024, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/301 "2024-01-15T19:09:54Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > But you won’t need no camel when I take you for a ride. Insert your “Hump” joke here. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2024, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/302 "2024-01-16T02:27:58Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Now imagine that sand getting into intimate places while you are trying to get busy OK, Anakin. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2024, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/303 "2024-01-16T07:45:06Z")
I was reading(_don’t judge me_) a romantic historical novel in which a couple walked naked onto a beach and did it on the sand. When they got up he told her they needed to bathe in the sea because “I have sand in the strangest places” ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/304 "2024-01-16T17:58:42Z")
Him? What about her? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/305 "2024-01-16T21:00:00Z")
I imagine she got sand in all the expected places. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2024, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/306 "2024-01-17T11:07:32Z")
You make a good point. Probably not as much of a surprise from her perspective. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/307 "2024-01-17T20:13:35Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > [Cracked.com](http://Cracked.com) had an article about the ways all those romantic places to get busy - beaches, pools, cars - are actually uncomfortable or unsafe. Cars are cramped, chlorine dries up natural lubrication, and beaches are like having sex wrapped in sandpaper. I always suspect that those tropes all evolved from where can a young-ish person find to make out with their significant other far away from the prying eyes of parents, Ms. Grundy, and the like. The quality of said sex was likely NOT a factor, or at least, not from the POV of a “traditional” male partner. Other examples, such as making out on a blanket out in the woods/wilderness (bug bites, minimal padding, animal interruptions) or the slightly more modern trope of the mile high club (no space, concealment, no padding, minimal privacy) are equally suspect from the POV of a mutually satisfying sexual experience. But the thrill of getting away with it is I’m sure just as true now as when they first evolved. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2024, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/308 "2024-01-17T21:58:44Z")
I’d figure the sex-on-the-beach trope probably got its biggest impetus from Burt Lancaster and Deborah Kerr. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2024, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/309 "2024-01-17T22:10:03Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I imagine she got sand in all the expected places. Her clam? ![](https://media.giphy.com/media/dU5ooZmxQ9gTWRLAaj/giphy.gif) ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/310 "2024-02-05T15:18:09Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > The problem isn’t that Kirk is not 100% good or bad. I just think the message “in order to be a good starship captain, you have to be a little bit rapist” is a tough sell these days. I didn’t read that at all, even as a young teenager. Seemed clear to me that to be the Captain you needed compassion and aggression. You needed to be able to send people to their death, and cause the death in others, and compassion to avoid if if you can. I do agree even that would be a tough sell in 2023, as we are all special snowflakes now and everything can be solved with a hug. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/311 "2024-02-05T15:30:05Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > as we are all special snowflakes now and everything can be solved with a hug. Do you really believe that society has changed in that way? Because all of the research I’m seeing indicates people are more prone to retaliatory aggression, more polarized, more extreme, more mistrusting than in the decades past. I’d argue that the “compassion” part of that lesson would be a hard sell for many these days. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/312 "2024-02-05T15:32:36Z")
Also, it’s 2024. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/313 "2024-02-05T17:45:08Z")
Seems like some viewers have a problem with that the portrayal of the “unrestrained aggressiveness” personality included violating specifically _sexual_ boundaries. But the writers evidently wanted to portray that the “unrestrained aggressive” personality is unrestrained about **everything** _he thinks he can get away with,_ rather than go for the “even HE has limits” trope. But I never got the impression that it was purporting to say that decisive aggressiveness _means_ being “a little bit rapey inside”. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/314 "2024-02-06T11:30:21Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > The _really_ problematic thing about “The Enemy Within” is Spock’s final line to Yeoman Rand, after the two Kirks have been re-integrated into one. Spock says to her, “The imposter had some…_interesting_ qualities, wouldn’t you say, Yeoman?” > > Yeah, the way he tried to rape you? That sure was interesting, wasn’t it? It’s not being rapey that was meant. The storyline for Rand was her constant desire to get Kirk’s attention with his total ignoring of her advances. Spock was pointing out that the uncontrolled Kirk displayed an attraction to Rand. That it was out-of-control attraction is just what let’s it be revealed. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/315 "2024-02-06T20:38:48Z")
Yeah. I never looked at it as “good Kirk and Evil Kirk”, even though that’s the way it’s usually talked about. I thought of it as more “Id Kirk Versus Superego Kirk”. The compassionate, empathetic, moral Kirk was crippled due to lacking passion & drive, while feral Kirk was just that - feral. All appetite and passion, no self control, morality or foresight. Both were unbalanced. Feral Kirk was more _dangerous_ since he still had enough drive to actually _do_ things, but passive Kirk was mainly safer because he _wasn’t_ going to do much of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/316 "2024-02-08T23:58:09Z")
Both Kirk’s got more extreme as the episode went on. Passive Kirk found making decisions harder, and aggressive Kirk had a harder time faking being normal [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229.md?page=15)