# Absolute WTF, 'what were they thinking' plots and subplots in old movies and TV shows **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** theater-stage-dance\ **Created:** [December 27, 2023, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229 "2023-12-27T13:58:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/21 "2023-12-27T19:17:50Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I’m still baffled by **Seven Brides For Seven Brothers** , a musical based on the Rape of the Sabine Women. It has not aged well _at all_. To be fair, the meaning of the word “rape” has changed in the past few centuries. It used to mean to grab or carry off\*, which is still a crime, but regarded as somewhat less heinous than actual forced sex. cf. Alexander Pope’s The Rape of the Lock, which we read in high school and found out it was not especially shocking. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/22 "2023-12-27T19:18:28Z")
I generally dislike all the Chevy Chase _Vacation_ movies, but who the fuck finds Corpse Abuse remotely funny? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/23 "2023-12-27T19:22:15Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I’m still baffled by **Seven Brides For Seven Brothers** , a musical based on the Rape of the Sabine Women. It has not aged well _at all_. It was directly based on the short story “The Sobbin’ Women”, by Stephen Vincent Benét (who should have known better), which was based on the myth. I saw it for the first time as I was catching up on musicals when I still had my Netflix DVD subscription - definitely cringeworthy. I think I read in the Times that there is an effort to figure out how to revive the show, but they are having the obvious problems of making it somehow remotely acceptable today. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/24 "2023-12-27T19:28:19Z")
> [@veryfrank](#): > > James Bond, though I’m a lifelong fan of the franchise, was tremendously rapey, particularly in the Connery years (_Thunderball_ is maybe the worst offender). In _Thunderball_ Bond certainly extorts the nurse into having sex with him (and she’s later seen enjoying his company, creepily implying that she was into him all along), but in _Goldfinger_ he [outright forcibly rapes Pussy Galore](https://youtu.be/1pUXH1Bye88?si=w2zrkV0L_8eQIT3N) out of her lesbianism (implied in the film, explicit in the novel). Most of the really rapey behavior ends by _On Her Majesty’s Secret Service_, and Roger Moore (who was actually a victim of domestic abuser in his own life) specifically objected to some of the more violent and misogynistic scenes scripted in his films, but Bond frequently misrepresents himself to get sex and/or information which is unsurprising because he is, after all, a spy and professional assassin. > [@Gatopescado](#): > > I generally dislike all the Chevy Chase _Vacation_ movies, but who the fuck finds Corpse Abuse remotely funny? Well, it is part of the essential premise for [the best film Andrew McCarthy ever starred in](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098627/), and at least technically an innate part of the story for [one of the funniest comedies ever made](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072431/). In general, I find nearly all Chevy Chase films to be painfully short on laughs even without knowledge of what an asshole he is in real life, although he was perfectly cat in _Community_ for playing essentially himself, and the irony is that he was fired for doing exactly what he was hired to do on-screen. Manipulating a corpse for humor is nothing compared to casting Eric Idle in your film and then making him completely pointless. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/25 "2023-12-27T19:35:30Z")
Have you ever watched _Gilligan’s Island_ ? Like, at all? The point is you must suspend your disbelief and just go with it. It’s supposed to be entertainment. There are horrible flicks I won’t watch. Simply because of realism. I don’t wanna see people evisorated. Or children and small animals hurt. I can’t watch the part of _Old Yeller_ where the boy has to kill his good dog\*. But that’s just me. Seven Brides for Seven Brothers is just a bit of fluff that is mildly entertaining. It’s worth it just to see Clint sing. Once. So many older movies are culturally inappropriate now. We can’t ban everything. Watch what you like. If it upsets you. Turn it off. Oh, and it seems like Dick Van Dyke had a bunch of goofy movies. Have you ever seen _Fitzwilly_. Talk about unbelievable. (\*Why didn’t the boy get rabies? Or was it the raccoons not the hogs that had it?) ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/26 "2023-12-27T19:46:50Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > So many older movies are culturally inappropriate now. We can’t ban everything. > Watch what you like. If it upsets you. Turn it off. I’m not suggesting anything should be banned, even if it hasn’t aged well at all. Heck, I even wouldn’t mind Disney lifting their self-banning of ‘Song of the South’. It’s a cultural artifact. Slap a disclaimer on it and let people see it if they want to. Can’t make the past go away by hiding it. As Santayana said, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” This thread is just for those plot lines, or often weird little subplots, that make you think “WTF were they thinking, even back then?!?” ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/27 "2023-12-27T20:02:09Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Have you ever watched _Gilligan’s Island_ ? Like, at all? [“Those poor people!”](https://youtu.be/wmfIZyRHvdw?si=C1vd0x6TsD1-FFEU) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/28 "2023-12-27T20:03:56Z")
Or the Rape Ballet in _The Fantasticks_. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/29 "2023-12-27T21:53:45Z")
> [@solost](#): > > As I mentioned upthread, even for the 80s that would seem to have been considered pretty WTF. I’m surprised no one at the time took a look at the script and said, “hey guys, think _ **maybe** _ we should tone down all the sex crimes and actual rape?” The dialogue surrounding issues of sexual assault, date rape, and consent have changes considerably over the last 40 years. Back in 1984, you might have found complaint about raunchy teen comedies, but what we take issue with today weren’t part of mainstream discussions back then. The past is a weird country, they do things differently. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/30 "2023-12-27T22:27:02Z")
I recently watched a comedy from 1969 called The Gay Deceivers. The story revovles around two young guys who pretend to be a gay couple in order to avoid the draft, and try to balance convincing the draft board they’re gay while keeping up their straight relationships with their girlfriends and families. Solid enough premise for a comedy, it has some pretty funny moments, and it’s even a little ahead of its time how it presents the guy’s neighbors, a middle-aged gay couple, as genuinely nice people you wouldn’t mind living next door to. It all falls apart in the end, though. Their charade falls apart - their girlfriends think they’re gay and leave them, and the recruiter realizes they’re straight, but he still marks them 4F and dismisses them - because it turns out the draft board are all closet cases who are secretly trying to keep straights out of the army. WTF is really the only thing you can say. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/31 "2023-12-27T22:37:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I recently watched a comedy from 1969 called The Gay Deceivers. The story revovles around two young guys who pretend to be a gay couple in order to avoid the draft, and try to balance convincing the draft board they’re gay while keeping up their straight relationships with their girlfriends and families. I think you just described **Three’s Company** , except without the draft. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/32 "2023-12-27T22:48:43Z")
Is anything more cringey than 1986 _Soulman_? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/33 "2023-12-27T22:52:21Z")
I don’t think Three’s Company ever had a moment quite like this; [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/kOZY7e5XN6s/hqdefault.jpg "Excerpt from Gay Deceivers (1969)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOZY7e5XN6s) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/34 "2023-12-27T23:33:57Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Never mind _Seven Brides For Seven Brothers_; somebody explain how [_Paint Your Wagon_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paint_Your_Wagon_(film)) came to be a “classic”, or indeed came to be in existence. As I recall, the polyandry is the female character’s idea. And it’s Lee Marvin’s singing/rumbling that stands out; Clint Eastwood’s singing is perfectly serviceable. > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Is anything more cringey than 1986 _Soulman_? Yeah, that one is _really_ bad. A film purporting to address racism while reinforcing every racist stereotype of black people, with a dollop of “white savior” on top. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/35 "2023-12-28T00:18:16Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > As I recall, the polyandry is the female character’s idea. It’s not even the polyandry (or even the wife-swapping that occurs later) that is the particular problem; I’m sure there were many casual domestic arrangements in the ‘Old West’ due to the scarcity of women and the lack of communities with entrenched moral strictures, and would be an interesting topic for a more coherent film. It is the entire package of Lee Marvin and Clint Eastwood performing in a musical ‘comedy’ (albeit much of the humor is unintentional) and the ending where the entire town collapses into tunnels dug by Lee Marvin for no particular reason whatsoever. That this was adapted from the musical play by Paddy Chayefsky, known chiefly for portraying domestic realism and scathing social commentary in films like _The Goddess_, _The Americanization of Emily_, _The Hospital_, and _Network_ rather than the sort of anachronistic psychedelic hippy love-fest of this film. In Chayefsky’s oeuvre, this is closest to _Altered States_. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/36 "2023-12-28T02:11:19Z")
Rewatched Vertigo recently, despite my skin trying to crawl off while Kim Novak allows Jimmy Stewart to remake her as his dead girlfriend. Okay, that may not express all of what’s actually happening, but it’s still very ick. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/37 "2023-12-28T02:21:11Z")
I recently watched _Zandys bride_. Mail order bride situation where she sorta catfished him. Lied about her age. Boy that was some bad crap he put her through. That’s how life probably was for a lot of women going out west. Dirty, no one gave a crap about her unless she was cooking or washing or ready for some of his rights of sweet lovin’. No friends or family. And sheer meanness of the men. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/38 "2023-12-28T02:24:57Z")
I’ve been watching some old episodes of Fantasy Island recently starting with the TV movie “Return to Fantasy Island”. In that movie, one guy’s fantasy is to be stranded in the wilderness with his no-nonsense businesswoman boss (who gets tricked into being there under false pretenses). She isn’t interested in his bullshit, so she starts heading for civilization with the guy following along so he can “protect” her. Then she gets kidnapped by a weird mute dude who is going to keep her as a sex slave. The guy rescues her from the weird dude and they make their way back to civilization where of course the businesswoman instantly falls in love with him. Surprise twist – the weird rapey mute dude was Mr. Roarke in disguise! What a lovely ending. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/39 "2023-12-28T02:56:39Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > Rewatched Vertigo recently, despite my skin trying to crawl off while Kim Novak allows Jimmy Stewart to remake her as his dead girlfriend. Do you know Alfred Hitchcock? “Creepy and abusive” is essentially his brand. > [@hogarth](#): > > Surprise twist – the weird rapey mute dude was Mr. Roarke in disguise! What a lovely ending. _Fantasy Island_ was always a weird mashup of _The Love Boat_ and _The Twilight Zone_ with a weird kinky subtext. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/40 "2023-12-28T03:42:36Z")
I’d like to know the thinking behind the ST:TNG season one episode “Code of Honor”. The _Enterprise_ visits a planet where the population is played entirely by African-Americans. They are clad in pseudo-African attire and speak in faux African accents. They then kidnap the blonde and blue-eyed Tasha Yar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229.md?page=3)