# Absolute WTF, 'what were they thinking' plots and subplots in old movies and TV shows **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** theater-stage-dance\ **Created:** [December 27, 2023, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229 "2023-12-27T13:58:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/141 "2023-12-30T03:15:15Z")
To quote Alice: “You get any bigger, Gasbag, and you’ll float away!” She could dish it out too. Unless, of course, you expect all working-class married couples to live rosy lives. I’ve seen a lot worse among my own relatives. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/142 "2023-12-30T03:44:34Z")
Or my favorite lines in the whole series: Ralph (talking about his latest get-rich scheme): “This is the biggest thing I’ve ever got into!” Alice: “The biggest thing you ever got into is your pants.” ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/143 "2023-12-30T03:49:24Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Tell me that this isn’t abuse: Yes, clear cut verbal abuse, complete with the usual threat to punch her so hard she’ll fly to the moon. Lovely. Also, it’s clear that the baffling yet for some reason extremely common sitcom pairing of a fat loser shlub married to a woman far out of his league goes back to the very beginnings of sitcom TV. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/144 "2023-12-30T04:08:36Z")
Strangers on a Train: the main character shakes his handlers at the tennis match, and heads for the amusement park, the scene of the crime. When the cops catch up with him, one of them, for absolutely no reason, tries to shoot him, in a crowd, with his pistol. He instead kills the merry-go-round operator who falls on the speed lever, sending the machine spinning out of control. Two things: why would the machine be built in such a way that it could spin that fast? And more importantly, the cops were pretty nonchalant about having just killed an innocent by-stander. And how about the machine gun bullets the pilots are spraying all over Manhattan in an attempt to bring down Kong, who would have come down sooner or later anyway. And about Kong- that freighter wouldn’t have had Kong-sized hatches, which meant Kong spent the entire trip lashed to the deck. And then they wonder why he’s pissed! ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/145 "2023-12-30T04:29:13Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Unless, of course, you expect all working-class married couples to live rosy lives. I’ve seen a lot worse among my own relatives. As have I, both in my own immediate family and in the stories I heard when I helped teach self-defense courses in womens’ shelters. Just because such behavior is normalized does not mean it is not abuse. > [@solost](#): > > Also, it’s clear that the baffling yet for some reason extremely common sitcom pairing of a fat loser shlub married to a woman far out of his league goes back to the very beginnings of sitcom TV. It’s a kind of wish fulfillment which also provides an asymmetric conflict generator where the smart-and-sharp wife who uses her rapier wit to stay one step ahead of the oft-bumbling antics of her husband. Sitcom makers later ditched the abuse when they realized that women actually bought most of the products that advertisers are hawking, and weren’t really interested in seeing the domestic struggles many of them faced daily played for laughs, so now the male figure is usually a complete dunce that doesn’t seem bright enough to dress himself. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/146 "2023-12-30T04:41:34Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > (e.g. _Raising Minnesota_, That’s _Feeling Minnesota_. As opposed to _Raising Arizona_. 🙃 ---
**Author:** ![Yodalicious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yodalicious/32/8195_2.png) [@Yodalicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yodalicious)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/147 "2023-12-30T04:49:24Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > There’s no way the Marx Brothers could have fit all those people in one tiny stateroom. Literal lol. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/148 "2023-12-30T06:50:11Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I find nearly all Chevy Chase films to be painfully short on laughs…casting Eric Idle in your film and then making him completely pointless. If you’re talking about **European Vacation** , that was bad timing, not bad directing. Idle had filmed all his scenes, with dialogue. Then he went to a party and was encouraged to sing, which he did all night, and blew out his vocal cords. Then he was called to do a reshoot, and since he could barely rasp loud enough to be heard a foot away, his character had to be silent. ---
**Author:** ![Neidhart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Neidhart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neidhart)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/149 "2023-12-30T14:14:08Z")
The Rosie character is supposed to be Salvadoran. I’ve seen plenty of Salvadorans; they’re numerically dominant in a lot of Northern Virginia neighborhoods. Never seen one who looks anything like Janet Leigh. ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/150 "2023-12-30T15:48:42Z")
Just the other night, I was reminded of the WKRP in Cincinnati episode where the state trooper came in to demonstrate how drinking dulls your reflexes. Johnny Fever and Venus Flytrap are his demonstrators. Venus gets drunk, but Fever’s reflexes get _better_ the more he drinks. Even for the time, it’s hard to understand why the network let this go, though it **was** hilarious. > **[WKRP in Cincinnati S01E21 Fish Story - video Dailymotion](https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6u6aqa)** > > WKRP in Cincinnati S01E21 Fish Story ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/151 "2023-12-30T16:13:29Z")
> [@Neidhart](#): > > The Rosie character is supposed to be Salvadoran. Am I missing some context? Is that a reply to someone? ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/152 "2023-12-30T16:29:56Z")
> [@solost](#): > > A point could be made that we’ve overcorrected a bit, but I think in general terms it’s best to err on the side of caution in this case. I don’t know what it’s like to be a black person in America, and if the black community finds any and all depictions of blackface offensive, no matter the intention, I’m fine with honoring that. To be honest, it’s virtue signaling plain and simple. People trying to score points. Like “MLK et al fought against racism and they’re heroes now. I want the same sort of attention. I need something offensive to be against.” That’s it. There are legit things to fight against, but this mining the past for offense isn’t always appropriate. Case in point is a Season 1 Saturday Night Live sketch featuring guest host Richard Pryor. The sketch features the n-word. Pryor himself wrote the sketch. But this is periodically brought up as problematic. Even though a black person wrote the sketch and lived through a time that was much closer to actually far worse racism than we see today. But we know better, I guess. It does seem kind of an over-correction if not actually wrong for a presumptively white person to say that a black person writing a sketch years ago is problematic. So when the details of the situation are brought up, the usual response is silence. Until some time later when the same thing is brought up again. And after it’s brought up enough times, well we have a consensus that it’s problematic. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/153 "2023-12-30T16:33:48Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Am I missing some context? Is that a reply to someone? The **Bye Bye Birdie** discussion, I assume. “Rosie Alvarez” in the play became “Rosie DeLeon” in the film, played by Janet Leigh. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/154 "2023-12-30T16:58:19Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Well, the topic is evolving cultural mores, so if it’s for that reason, sure… The thread might have become that, but it’s not obvious in the title or OP. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/155 "2023-12-30T17:13:21Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > > [@Joey\_P](#): > > > > Am I missing some context? Is that a reply to someone? > > The **Bye Bye Birdie** discussion, I assume. “Rosie Alvarez” in the play became “Rosie DeLeon” in the film, played by Janet Leigh. I assumed it was because she always favored Rosie, because it smells of brown soap and beer ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/156 "2023-12-30T17:23:22Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > > [@Leaper](#): > > > > Well, the topic is evolving cultural mores, so if it’s for that reason, sure… > > The thread might have become that, but it’s not obvious in the title or OP. My OP intent was more ‘plot lines in older shows and movies that were WTF, even for their time.” But the discussion branching out into evolving cultural mores is fine with me. They are similar, and whether a WTF plot line was _ **actually** _ WTF for its day, or an example of an evolving cultural more, is subject to opinion and interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/157 "2023-12-30T18:16:17Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > I’ve been watching some old episodes of Fantasy Island recently starting with the TV movie “Return to Fantasy Island”. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > _Fantasy Island_ was always a weird mashup of _The Love Boat_ and _The Twilight Zone_ with a weird kinky subtext. On hotel room cable last year The Love Boat had David Hedison as an old flame of Lauren Tewes (one of SIX guest roles he played on the show). Thing is, for him to be her old flame, they would have had to have hooked up in her early 20’s (maybe even late teens), when he would have been in his late 40’s (based on the actors’ birth years, and note in the show she looked younger than that). The show paid zero attention to the icky age gap, either then or in the present. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/158 "2023-12-30T18:22:36Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > so now the male figure is usually a complete dunce that doesn’t seem bright enough to dress himself. Plus, most of these shows were written as vehicles for the male star, so why not write yourself a hot wife if you’re the guy in charge? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/159 "2023-12-30T18:49:37Z")
> [@solost](#): > > My OP intent was more ‘plot lines in older shows and movies that were WTF, even for their time.” So two I can think of that were actually WTF at the time rather than now includes the following: _The Last American Virgin_(1982), the protagist gets close to his love interest after her boyfriend dumps her when she becomes pregnant. He sells his prized stereo, the one he worked so hard to be able to afford, to pay for her abortion. She invites him to her birthday party, and again he spends some money to buy her a necklace, and when he arrives finds her kissing the boyfriend who dumped her when she became pregant. The movie ends with him getting in his car and driving away with tears in his eyes. This isn’t how a teen sex comedy is supposed to end! _Sleepaway Camp_(1983) is a slasher film that’s only remembered because of it’s twist ending. Years after her twin brother was killed by reckless boaters, Angela is sent to a summer camp where she is bullied because she just doesn’t fit in with the other kids. People who bully her start dying in violent ways, and at the end of the film we find out it was Angela. Psych! We find out that Angela was the one who died in the boating accident and Peter survived. So here was have a transgender slasher. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/160 "2023-12-30T19:05:47Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Plus, most of these shows were written as vehicles for the male star, so why not write yourself a hot wife if you’re the guy in charge? Also I don’t think that couples like that are actually _all that_ unrealistic. Among the set of couples in their 30s and 40s it’s pretty easy to find men who are way below average for looks with a beautiful wife / partner. Maybe he’s super interesting. Maybe he’s very successful. Or maybe they started out at a similar level of attractiveness and he’s let himself go. Of course that’s not to say the sitcoms were even trying to be realistic. Im just saying personally I have a high tolerance for “attractive woman, unattractive man”, and indeed the reverse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229.md?page=9)