# Absolute WTF, 'what were they thinking' plots and subplots in old movies and TV shows **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** theater-stage-dance\ **Created:** [December 27, 2023, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229 "2023-12-27T13:58:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/161 "2023-12-30T19:12:56Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > I remember one episode where he said he hadn’t used the “n” word in 10 years. I believe he says “in years” because he had actually used it early on in the show. It is in response to another character at a party using the word and to show that Archie actually had changed since the show started. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/162 "2023-12-30T21:46:25Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Maybe he’s super interesting. Maybe he’s very successful. Or maybe they started out at a similar level of attractiveness and he’s let himself go. But that’s not how most of these shows are. Ralph Kramden supposedly is the genesis for this sort of character, but Ralph was still aspirational and aware of his own shortcomings in the long run. And received his share of putdowns coming from Alice. This later set, and it became a VERY dominant trope, aren’t aspirational or aware of their own shortcomings. In fact they’re typically aggressively stupid and proud of their own ignorance. Maybe they were in shape way back when at the time they met their wives, but they never put any effort into self improvement. The wives may look better and be smarter, but they put up with the husbands regardless, and the husbands manage to maintain a middle class existence despite no particular effort or worries on their part. So we laugh at the white male doofus husband, but I wonder who the joke is on. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/163 "2023-12-30T21:51:44Z")
> [@solost](#): > > Also, it’s clear that the baffling yet for some reason extremely common sitcom pairing of a fat loser shlub This gets rather close to fat shaming. Well, scratch that “gets rather close” And Ralph has a good career as a bus driver. Hardly a “loser” Just another working class dude- which isn’t being a loser. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/164 "2023-12-30T21:55:22Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > The wives may look better and be smarter, but they put up with the husbands regardless, and the husbands manage to maintain a middle class existence despite no particular effort or worries on their part. So we laugh at the white male doofus husband, but I wonder who the joke is on. American TV comedy has always had a strong tendency toward buffoonery. The buffoons are usually the stars of their shows, and presuambly the highest paid. I don’t know why Ricky put up with all of Lucy’s hijinks for years, either. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/165 "2023-12-30T21:59:40Z")
'Splain. couldn’t resist. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/166 "2023-12-30T23:41:52Z")
A screw up joins the Army and goofs his way through basic training. Then, after a transfer to Europe, he and a friend steal a secret weapon and attack another country. When they return to the U.S., they get a heroes welcome. I know it’s a classic, but the plot is pretty fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/167 "2023-12-30T23:46:31Z")
It’s a movie that managed to combine “the excellent original picture” and “the disappointing sequel” into cinema experience (I’d summarize the first half as “a couple of screwups join the Army and in spite of intending to goof their way through, they actually learn something”). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2023, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/168 "2023-12-30T23:50:57Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Then, after a transfer to Europe, he and a friend steal a secret weapon and attack another country. Then, after a transfer to Europe, he and a friend improvise an impromptu rescue of their unit after a command screw-up places said unit in an unfriendly country and accused of espionage. Throw in a little “enhanced interrogation” as well. With _zero_ advanced training (they deployed straight from Basic) they managed to infiltrate, locate their unit and successfully exfiltrate with zero casualties. When they return to the U.S., they get a heroes welcome. FTFY. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/169 "2023-12-31T00:00:37Z")
And for those who aren’t familiar with the unspecified movie in question, it’s _[Stripes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stripes_(film))_, starring Bill Murray and Harold Ramis. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/170 "2023-12-31T00:00:50Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > A screw up joins the Army and goofs his way through basic training. Then, after a transfer to Europe, he and a friend steal a secret weapon and attack another country. When they return to the U.S., they get a heroes welcome. > > I know it’s a classic, but the plot is pretty fucked up. I’m pretty sure this was Dick Cheney’s inspiration for the 2003 Invasion of Iraq. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/171 "2023-12-31T00:33:26Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Then, after a transfer to Europe, he and a friend improvise an impromptu rescue of their unit after a command screw-up places said unit in an unfriendly country and accused of espionage. So the country was invaded by a small military force, then our heroes come in to provide reinforcements. I’m not sure that’s much of an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/172 "2023-12-31T00:38:54Z")
“Lighten up, Francis.” ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/173 "2023-12-31T01:11:55Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Im just saying personally I have a high tolerance for “attractive woman, unattractive man”, and indeed the reverse. But the reverse hardly ever happens. New sitcom comes on, you just know it’s going to be older schlub (sometimes fat, sometimes unmotivated, sometimes a slob) paired with younger, hotter, ambitious woman. Not just TV from the past (I grew up in the “Ralph and Alice/Fred and Wilma” days). I just changed channels, caught a glimpse of _King of Queens._ I rest my case. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/174 "2023-12-31T01:16:58Z")
An interesting case is “I Love Lucy” - Ricky is a performer, someone who is often shown in his well-dressed, ready for the public mode, while Lucy (in real life a glamorous celebrity) is often shown on screen as a mess (now Fred and Ethel are a different matter). ---
**Author:** ![XOldiesJock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ec9cab/32.png) [@XOldiesJock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XOldiesJock)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/175 "2023-12-31T01:17:00Z")
> [@digs](#): > > _New sitcom comes on, you just know it’s going to be older schlub (sometimes fat, sometimes unmotivated, sometimes a slob) paired with younger, hotter, ambitious woman._ In addition to younger, hotter and ambitious, she must be _ **sassy.** _ ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/176 "2023-12-31T01:20:03Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > It’s a movie that managed to combine “the excellent original picture” and “the disappointing sequel” into cinema experience… It’s hardly the only movie where the first half is better than the second. There’s probably been a thread on the subject. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > And for those who aren’t familiar with the unspecified movie in question, it’s _[Stripes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stripes_(film))_, starring Bill Murray and Harold Ramis. I wanted to describe the plot without the title so readers wouldn’t pre-judge. I expected everyone to figure it out pretty quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/177 "2023-12-31T01:21:10Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > “Lighten up, Francis.” I’m getting too old for this shit. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/178 "2023-12-31T01:23:58Z")
No matter how obvious it might seem to you, there’s always going to be a subset of those reading the thread who don’t recognize the movie, or have never seen it. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/179 "2023-12-31T01:29:17Z")
Yeah, probably. I’m not disappointed that you gave the title, but I had a reason for leaving it out of my post, too. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229/180 "2023-12-31T01:31:06Z")
> [@digs](#): > > But the reverse hardly ever happens. New sitcom comes on, you just know it’s going to be older schlub (sometimes fat, sometimes unmotivated, sometimes a slob) paired with younger, hotter, ambitious woman. It happens, just not in sitcoms so much. Eg in soap operas, or non comedy romance stuff aimed at women. In this kind of stuff the guy is almost always so chisled handsome he’d have women following him like pikmin in real life, and the woman can be on a spectrum from reasonably attractive to quite plain. Doesn’t bother me because I’ve seen it in real life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-wtf-what-were-they-thinking-plots-and-subplots-in-old-movies-and-tv-shows/995229.md?page=10)