# Abu Ghraib - graveyard of our honor **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 10, 2004, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482 "2004-07-10T20:51:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482/81 "2004-07-14T19:42:36Z")
And why am I seeing **Lib** as Margaret Dumont (with a touch of Baby Jane Hudson)? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482/82 "2004-07-14T19:48:00Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > And why am I seeing **Lib** as Margaret Dumont (with a touch of Baby Jane Hudson)? Damned if I know; whatever one thinks of Lib, his online persona isn’t anything remotely like ‘stuffy grand dame’, which was Dumont’s onscreen persona in the Marx Brothers movies. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482/83 "2004-07-14T19:51:50Z")
Please, look at the orotund, stilted style of his prose and tell me that doesn’t have the large-bosomed Dumont look. And of course the Baby Jane Hudson is added to reflect his freewheeling insanity. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482/84 "2004-07-14T21:42:23Z")
Nah, **Eve** as Margaret Dumont would be more fun to see. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482/85 "2004-07-14T22:01:19Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Nah, **Eve** as Margaret Dumont would be more fun to see. _Really!_ She has copped to the monobosom ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482/86 "2004-07-14T22:26:41Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Sorry, **rjung** , I’m a wisecracking time-traveler from the past, looking for ways to flim-flam my way into the presidency of a country with the help of rich benefactors, generally make a mess of the country’s business, and start wars on absurdly minor pretexts. > > And I’m exceedingly jealous of the current White House occupant for having bested me on all counts! And don’t forget that you promised that “chewers will be pursued, and in the hoosegow hidden.” The current occupant has that one covered real well. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482/87 "2004-07-15T15:31:58Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > And don’t forget that you promised that “chewers will be pursued, and in the hoosegow hidden.” > > The current occupant has that one covered real well. And he’s given Ashcroft the responsibility for: _If any form of pleasure is exhibited report to me and it will be prohibited I’ll put my foot down, so shall it be this is the land of the free._ ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482/88 "2004-07-15T15:47:34Z")
> [@Gobear](#): > > Please, look at the orotund, stilted style of his prose and tell me that doesn’t have the large-bosomed Dumont look. It has been told to me that I write in the manner of Ayn Rand. > [@](#): > > And of course the Baby Jane Hudson is added to reflect his freewheeling insanity. As in my advocacy that peaceful honest people should be free to pursue their own happiness in their own way? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482/89 "2004-07-15T20:42:33Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > As in my advocacy that peaceful honest people should be free to pursue their own happiness in their own way? I have no problem with that. But I prefer to advocate for people who actually exist in this world; those in heaven are already doing fine, I assume. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482/90 "2004-07-15T20:58:18Z")
Are you saying, for example, that there is no way in reality that two men could marry each other without initial force or deception between them or against them by others? ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482/91 "2004-07-15T21:14:10Z")
Congratulations on another successful hijack! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482/92 "2004-07-15T21:26:33Z")
> [@vibrotronica](#): > > Congratulations on another successful hijack! Would that we had learned the lessons of 9/11, and stopped allowing hijackers to succeed. Daniel [sub]wondering if that was in incredibly poor taste[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482/93 "2004-07-15T21:28:43Z")
> [@vibrotronica](#): > > Congratulations on another successful hijack! I presume that you mean me. That you mean that I hijacked the thread. That you mean that I hijacked the thread with my post **#88**. That you mean that I hijacked the thread by responding directly to Gobear’s post **#81** about Margaret Dumont and Baby Jane Hudson. I presume that you mean to say that I, by some time-travelling miracle, responded to Gobear before he even posted. I presume also that aside from being a busybody, you are a fucking idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482/94 "2004-07-15T21:33:53Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I presume that you mean to say that I, by some time-travelling miracle, responded to Gobear before he even posted. I presume also that aside from being a busybody, you are a fucking idiot. I don’t presume that you listen to me any more, but this is no way to speak to your God. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482/95 "2004-07-15T21:45:13Z")
Perhaps as a man of honor, Daniel, since you were posting anyway, you could have bothered to point out the obvious fact that my post followed Gobear’s. Instead, you chose to make an irrelevant joke about 9/11. Then, following my defense of myself, you chose to correct me instead of agree with me. Yes, I am honest with my God, and I tell Him when I’m angry. I tell him to go fuck Himself in times of dispair and depression. He returns only love. You have become like Satan whispering advice from scripture, taking advantage of weak moments to stab me with knives made of words. You ignore the entire substance of the post, which you know to be right, and lift from it a portion which you can use to berate me, belittle me, and join the pile on. I will listen to a man when he cares about me. But you clearly do not. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482/96 "2004-07-16T01:26:13Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I will listen to a man when he cares about me. But you clearly do not. Lib, look up. See the top of the page? We’re in the Pit. If you want to listen to people who care about you, this is probably _not_ the forum to hang out in. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482/97 "2004-07-16T01:48:38Z")
Torture: wasn’t this whole thing about torture at one point? Although, sitting through yet another **Lib** harangue is indeed torture, of the mental variety. Not nearly the same thing as having one’s nails pulled, but I suppose it’ll have to do. I know, no more punishment for me. Time to go upstairs and make The Wife get to work. It’s a sweaty business, but someone’s got to do it. (Where is that damn cat o’ nine tails when you need it, anyway? Ah yes, The Dog has it. And she’s gnawing on it. The bitch.) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482/98 "2004-07-16T03:46:14Z")
I would say the fucking goddam shit has been hijacked out of this thread. What the fuck does any of this shit have to do with Abu Ghraib? Zip. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482/99 "2004-07-16T11:42:33Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > I would say the fucking goddam shit has been hijacked out of this thread. What the fuck does any of this shit have to do with Abu Ghraib? Zip. Let’s get it back on track, then, shall we? > [@](#): > > [Hersh: Children sodomized at Abu Ghraib, on tape > July 15, 2004](http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room//index.html#hersh) > > Hersh gave a speech last week to the ACLU making the charge that children were sodomized in front of women in the prison, and the Pentagon has tape of it. > > \ > > “Some of the worst things that happened you don’t know about, okay? Videos, um, there are women there. Some of you may have read that they were passing letters out, communications out to their men. This is at Abu Ghraib … The women were passing messages out saying ‘Please come and kill me, because of what’s happened’ and basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys, children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. And the worst above all of that is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror. It’s going to come out.” > > “It’s impossible to say to yourself how did we get there? Who are we? Who are these people that sent us there? When I did My Lai I was very troubled like anybody in his right mind would be about what happened. I ended up in something I wrote saying in the end I said that the people who did the killing were as much victims as the people they killed because of the scars they had, I can tell you some of the personal stories by some of the people who were in these units witnessed this. I can also tell you written complaints were made to the highest officers and so we’re dealing with a enormous massive amount of criminal wrongdoing that was covered up at the highest command out there and higher, and we have to get to it and we will. We will. You know there’s enough out there, they can’t (Applause). … So it’s going to be an interesting election year.” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482/100 "2004-07-16T11:51:24Z")
Desmostylus, I can’t get to the article. I watched the commercial for the day pass, but it took me to the front page. Can you provide the set of links that will take us to what you’ve cited? It certainly appears to be a monstrous and outrageous abuse of power. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abu-ghraib-graveyard-of-our-honor/254482.md?page=6)