# Abysmal judgement gene rears it's ugly head again-Kennedy stupidity **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 5, 2006, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510 "2006-05-05T08:02:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/181 "2006-05-08T21:41:36Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > My point is that you can’t lie about an opinion, by its very nature. But \*\*Shodan \*\* can, and did, lie about the cite which he based his opinion on. There was nothing in it to support his belief that the Kennedys bought anyone off to avoid prosecution. The lie occurs when you state that your site contains information that supports your belief. If I said, “I believe George W. Bush wants to abolish the Constitution and institute a dictatorship,” then cited one of his state of the union addresses as containing statements that supported that contention, I would expect to be called a liar as well. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/182 "2006-05-08T21:49:20Z")
He assaulted someone (on video, no less) and wasn’t charged. That’s what his cite says. How does that happen? He thinks that the Kennedy family paid hush money to make it go away. That’s not a lie. That’s an opinion based upon the facts. The fact is that Kennedy did something, wasn’t charged, and settled out of court. It’s somewhat reminiscent of Michael Jackson, and people have no problem whatsoever believing that he paid hush money, so why is it a big deal here? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/183 "2006-05-08T22:09:41Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > He thinks that the Kennedy family paid hush money to make it go away. That’s not a lie. That’s an opinion based upon the facts. That’s right, and had it ended there, there is no lie. If he had said, “It’s my opinion, I don’t have anything concrete to base it on, other than it was a Kennedy”, I would just chalk it up to more anti-Kennedy bluster. But when I asked what led him to believe that, **he lied** when he posted a cite that he said contains information that would support such a belief, and lead others to do so as well. When he points to a website and says, “Here’s the cite,” as if it refutes any contradiction, then that is dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/184 "2006-05-08T22:42:33Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > He assaulted someone (on video, no less) and wasn’t charged. That’s what his cite says. How does that happen? Doesn’t the person who got shoved have to press charges, first? Did the guard he shoved ever try to do that? Or did she just go straight for the civil suit, which was settled before it went to trial, as happens with most such suits? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/185 "2006-05-08T23:11:26Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > He assaulted someone (on video, no less) and wasn’t charged. That’s what his cite says. How does that happen? There are plenty of ways: 1. She may have done something to him first that would make the case difficult to prosecute. 2. The tape may be unclear as to whether he was deliberately shoving her or, say, drunkenly off-balance and stumbled into her (I’ve not seen the tape; I don’t know). 3. The shove may have been so minor that it’d fall under _De minimis non curat lex_. 4. The DA may have decided that pressing charges against a Kennedy would mean that he had no chance of winning re-election in his heavily Democratic district. 5. The Kennedys may have bribed the DA. 6. The security guard may have begged not to have charges pressed, because she didn’t want to be a centerpiece of a celebrity trial. That’s off the top of my head. I’m not saying which of these is most likely. But concluding that it’s #5 is tinfoil hat territory. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![HeelB4Zod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e19adc/32.png) [@HeelB4Zod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeelB4Zod)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/186 "2006-05-08T23:18:09Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Once again, you provide us with a substance-free Pit thread, in which your pathetic eagerness to express indignance outruns your grasp of the facts. :rolleyes: Whatever. Pretty weak rebuttal on your part, though, **mhendo**. Providing us substance-free threads in which one’s eagerness to express indignance outruns one’s grasp of the facts is the entire point of the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/187 "2006-05-08T23:23:07Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > That’s off the top of my head. I’m not saying which of these is most likely. But concluding that it’s #5 is tinfoil hat territory. Oh, I agree. I’m just saying that an opinion is not a lie. The cited article referenced an incident that usually results in some charges, but they didn’t charge him and he was allowed to settle. That looks shady, if nothing else, and **Shodan** is allowed to have his opinion in the samw way that some of you opine that Bush is fattening his oil cronies at the expense of the little guy (which is a common opinion here). ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/188 "2006-05-08T23:52:11Z")
Random quotes from news sources at the time of the LAX airport incident. This was in 2000. These are random and chosen by me to offer a general opinion of the incident. > [@](#): > > Representative Patrick J. Kennedy called last night for the release of an airport surveillance videotape of an altercation with a security guard, saying the tape would show how innocent the argument was. > > The guard, Della Patton, 58, filed a complaint with the Los Angeles Police Department after her dispute with Kennedy on March 26, saying the Rhode Island Democrat had hurt her as he tried to pass through security clearance. > > The guard made her story public in the National Enquirer. It was there that Kennedy’s lawyer learned she had filed a complaint. > > According to sources familiar with the investigation, the tape shows Kennedy walking toward the clearance area near Gate 7 of the Los Angeles International Airport carrying two bags. When the larger bag, a garment bag on wheels, did not fit easily onto the X-ray scanner, Kennedy was seen trying to lift the metal covering on the machine. Patton was then seen approaching him. The two began to talk. > > After pulling his wallet from his pocketKennedy was seen trying to bypass the guard, who was blocking his path through the airport metal detector. With his right hand, Kennedy tried to move Patton aside by pushing on her right arm, sources familiar with the videotape said. > > At no point did the tape show him hitting or grabbing Patton, as she alleged in a police report, the sources said. > > After failing to fit his bag through the X-ray scanner, Kennedy returned to the baggage counter to check the garment bag. On the videotape, Kennedy was seen returning to the security clearance a second time carrying only the smaller bag - and Patton did not appear frightened of him, the sources said. > > It also looks like the guard, Della Patton, 58, has ideas about shooting down some of the Kennedy wealth, too: He says her lawyer has asked for a financial settlement of more than $ 200,000. > > That mouthpiece, George L. Mallory Jr., confirmed discussing a possible suit with Kennedy’s attorney but denied asking for a specific amount. > > “We talked generally about what my client’s options were in the civil arena,” Mallory said. "Necessarily, there would have to be some type of financial settlement at some point.’ > > Otherwise, Mallory’s client would run the civil lawsuit down a legal runway to see if it will take off. > > Kennedy and Patton met Friday in L. A. in a hearing with a representative of the city attorney, who will decide this week whether to file a misdemeanor charge in the case. Most cases that go through such hearings are settled without charges filed, the city attorney’s office has said. . They settled in 2002. A later story said that after Kennedy was NOT indicted by the LA police, the Airport Police released the videotape and it DID show Kennedy mildly shoving the woman, though not in any way hurting her. He was just being a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/189 "2006-05-09T00:02:31Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > He was just being a jerk. well \*\* and \*\* bein’ a Kennedy. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/190 "2006-05-09T00:02:47Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > But when I asked what led him to believe that, **he lied** when he posted a cite that he said contains information that would support such a belief, and lead others to do so as well. When he points to a website and says, “Here’s the cite,” as if it refutes any contradiction, then that is dishonest. Why couldn’t he simply have been wrong? Maybe he thinks it and believes it, but is, you know, wrong? Why is it necessarily a lie? Why is it dishonest? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/191 "2006-05-09T00:10:02Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Random quotes from news sources at the time of the LAX airport incident. This was in 2000. These are random and chosen by me to offer a general opinion of the incident. > > . They settled in 2002. > > A later story said that after Kennedy was NOT indicted by the LA police, the Airport Police released the videotape and it DID show Kennedy mildly shoving the woman, though not in any way hurting her. He was just being a jerk. From those quotes, yes he was just being an arrogant and pushy jerk. It doesn’t sound like an attack at all. More like brushing someone aside, and the guard trying to cash in on some deep pockets. Kennedy mad. Kennedy smash. ?? Nope, doesn’t even sound close to that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/192 "2006-05-09T01:00:55Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Why is it necessarily a lie? Why is it dishonest? I explained my accusation to **Airman Doors** in posts[#181](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7374948&postcount=181) and [#183](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7375074&postcount=183). It thas nothing to do with his opinion. It has do do with dishonest debate. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/193 "2006-05-09T12:28:45Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > I explained my accusation to **Airman Doors** in posts[#181](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7374948&postcount=181) and [#183](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7375074&postcount=183). It thas nothing to do with his opinion. It has do do with dishonest debate. No, you’re just - well, I’ve already explained. > [@magellan01](#): > > Why couldn’t he simply have been wrong? Maybe he thinks it and believes it, but is, you know, wrong? Why is it necessarily a lie? Why is it dishonest? Because it is not a lie, not wrong, and not dishonest. It’s not even an opinion. Kennedy assaulted a security guard. She filed a complaint. They paid her off, and she dropped the complaint. Which is what I said in the first place, and what my cite establishes. **Fear Itself** , being what he is, interpreted my remarks in a way that a person of normal intelligence would not have done. Equating “paid to make it go away” as bribery is, well, exactly what I said it was. Not unexpectedly, unfortunately. _:shrugs:_ Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/194 "2006-05-10T12:15:56Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Kennedy assaulted a security guard. She filed a complaint. They paid her off, and she dropped the complaint. Which is what I said in the first place, and what my cite establishes. > > **Fear Itself** , being what he is, interpreted my remarks in a way that a person of normal intelligence would not have done. Equating “paid to make it go away” as bribery is, well, exactly what I said it was. Only an ignorant, uninformed fool would equate all legal settlements with bribery. It suits your rabid political agenda to do so, but it makes you look like an idiot. If you represent normal intelligence, the rest of us would be able to levitate a battleship with a mere twitch of our intellect. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/195 "2006-05-10T12:33:46Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Oh, I agree. I’m just saying that an opinion is not a lie. The cited article referenced an incident that usually results in some charges, but they didn’t charge him and he was allowed to settle. That looks shady, if nothing else, and **Shodan** is allowed to have his opinion in the samw way that some of you opine that Bush is fattening his oil cronies at the expense of the little guy (which is a common opinion here). …and **Bricker** disease strikes down another. Too bad. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/196 "2006-05-10T12:50:10Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Only an ignorant, uninformed fool would equate all legal settlements with bribery. It suits your rabid political agenda to do so, but it makes you look like an idiot. If you represent normal intelligence, the rest of us would be able to levitate a battleship with a mere twitch of our intellect. I need only point out that _you_ are the one who equated a settlement with bribery. Accordingly, I agree with your post entirely. Anyone who would do that _is_ an ignorant, uninformed fool with a rabid agenda. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/197 "2006-05-10T12:56:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I need only point out that _you_ are the one who equated a settlement with bribery. You are such a fucking liar. Do you kiss your children with that mouth? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/198 "2006-05-10T14:15:59Z")
A devastating rebuttal indeed. Like I said, it would be too much to expect that you could comprehend things from a non-stupid point of view. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/199 "2006-05-10T14:18:57Z")
Heh. The old “I know you are but what am I” riposte. I haven’t heard that since I was in the fourth grade. What’s next **Shodan** , “I’m rubber you’re glue”? I will, however, concede that you are of normal intelligence; for a nine-year-old. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/200 "2006-05-10T15:08:20Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > …and **Bricker** disease strikes down another. > > Too bad. > > -Joe Excuse me - but I am in this thread defending Rep. Kennedy, which is certainly contrary to the position I would take if motivated by partisan concerns. Woiuld you care to point out, anywhere on this board, a time when you have taken a position that would be fairly described as contrary to your partisan concerns? So what, exactly, is “Bricker disease?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510.md?page=11)