# Abysmal judgement gene rears it's ugly head again-Kennedy stupidity **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 5, 2006, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510 "2006-05-05T08:02:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/121 "2006-05-06T17:45:25Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > Ambien is crazy shit, I can vouch for that. I love it, but it’s crazy. It’s like a psychedelic or something, you feel really good, but everything takes on a surreal quality. Then if you stay awake on it you don’t remember what you did after it took effect. I’ve never felt any effects the next morning though. Word. My mom gained fifteen pounds in about two months, and she had no idea why. Turns out she was getting up in the middle of the night, on Ambien, and working her way through most of a half-gallon of ice cream. My wife also takes it, and she used to routinely order crap from HSN and QVC in the middle of the night without any recollection of having done so. We finally put parental controls on those particular channels. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/122 "2006-05-06T20:55:19Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > You still don’t get it. How can you deny having done anything (whether it’s drinking or taking a leak) when you have no memory of what happened? I’m not saying he did drink, or even whether it was likely or not. Just that I thnk it sounds funny to claim amnesia as your excuse and then state with certainty that “x” did not happen, whatever “x” is. You are reading waaaaaaay too much into my comment. Actually, it sounds like this particular Kennedy is ringing the changes on whatever mental health diagnosis is fashionable. First it was alcoholism, then cocaine addiction, then bipolar disorder, now it is addiction to pain pills. Is this a medical history, or a TV Guide listing of “Movie of the Week” for the last decade or so? Maybe it’s all true. Or maybe he read the same stuff I did about Ambien blackout, and dredged it up when the DC cops neglected to take a breathalyzer. Mighty convenient either way. Didn’t he punch out a security guard or something last time, when he decided he was bipolar? I think the family bought his way out of that one. Maybe they can do it again, since nobody died. This time. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/123 "2006-05-06T21:00:07Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Maybe it’s all true. Or maybe he read the same stuff I did about Ambien blackout, and dredged it up when the DC cops neglected to take a breathalyzer. Mighty convenient either way. > Regards, > Shodan and if he **was** on it, would you still call it ‘convenient’? or would you believe that he’d have the precognition to know that he’d need an ‘out’ in the future, so would fake symptoms to a doctor and get the script written, toss a few out so it would seem like he’d been taking them etc etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/124 "2006-05-06T21:06:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I think the family bought his way out of that one. If you would please share the evidence that led you to this well reasoned conclusion, I am sure we will all find it as persuasive as you did. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/125 "2006-05-06T21:07:00Z")
Proof? Didn’t you see the name “Kennedy”? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/126 "2006-05-06T23:05:10Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > In most states, it is the width of that hair that keeps the accused off death row or a life sentence, so I would say it is significant. All murders are homicides, but not all homicides are murders, no matter how much they offend your self-righteous partisanship. I’m getting tired of idiots like you saying the same thing over and over again hoping that by repetition you’ll make it true. Tell me, since I am a lifelong registered Democrat who would be an independent if Md didn’t have closed primaries, what or who, pray tell, am I supposed to be a self-righteous partisan for? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/127 "2006-05-07T00:53:20Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Tell me, since I am a lifelong registered Democrat who would be an independent if Md didn’t have closed primaries, what or who, pray tell, am I supposed to be a self-righteous partisan for? I’m a lifelong registered Republican, mainly because I didn’t much care in the first place and have never bothered to change it. A person’s voter registration often has nothing to do with their partisanship. And the only times I ever remember you screaming about anything, it was against the left. While I agree that **Bricker’s** approach is the wisest, I definitely did some major eyerolling when I heard the story. Let me just say that I hope that he didn’t use his influence, as that would turn what looks like plain incomptetence into conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/128 "2006-05-07T01:25:53Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > I’m getting tired of idiots like you saying the same thing over and over again hoping that by repetition you’ll make it true. Tell me, since I am a lifelong registered Democrat who would be an independent if Md didn’t have closed primaries, what or who, pray tell, am I supposed to be a self-righteous partisan for? There are conservatives who register as Democrats just to ratfuck the Party in closed primaries, by voting for the weakest candidate they would like to see go up against the Republican candidate. Judging by your track record here, if you are indeed registered as a Democract, I suspect that is the case. I don’t believe it when you say otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Salem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Salem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salem)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/129 "2006-05-07T02:17:23Z")
Gentlemen, could you please return us to our regularly scheduled thread? Although I could see the confusion considering the first part of the title, “Abysmal judgement gene…” , the name at the end is actually Kennedy, not weirddave. If you want to continue to make this thread all about dave, how about opening a brand new one where you can discuss dave and his political leanings to your heart’s content, maybe even throw in a MaryJo and Ted joke, leaving this thread devoid of your consistent dave-centered hijacks. Anyway, from what I’ve read, from [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/05/kennedy.accident/index.html) > [@](#): > > ‘Corrective’ action taken > The Capitol Police statement said an investigation of the crash was still under way. > > “Upon review, it has been determined that in the initial stages supervisors employed improper judgment,” it said. > > “Corrective administrative and personnel action has been taken. The Capitol Police remain committed to impartial and fair enforcement of laws and impartial and fair treatment of all citizens.” > > A congressional source who was briefed by police told CNN the watch commander on duty early Thursday has been reassigned for allowing two sergeants to drive Kennedy home soon after the crash, while ordering two officers at the scene to return to duty. So far nothing that says that Kennedy requested preferential treatment nor evidence that he had been drinking. Not that it didn’t happen, but just that there’s no evidence to show it did. I know that the “ambien defense” could be a ploy, but clearly, given the numerous accounts of the effects of the drug, he could very well have taken lots of drinks and never known he did it if it was after he took the medication. If you are completely not aware of what you are doing, are you guilty? What is the sound of one hand drinking? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/130 "2006-05-07T02:39:57Z")
> [@Salem](#): > > If you are completely not aware of what you are doing, are you guilty? Yes, in my opinion, you are. Blame the drugs, blame your doctor, blame your harsh toilet training, it’s all bullshit. How about some personal responsibility? Mr. Kennedy is an elected official and owes some measure of responsibility to his electorate, as well as his elected peers. The real addiction here is addiction to victim status which supposedly mollifies the charges extant. Maybe I’m the odd fellow, but I read the paperwork on a prescribed medication before I take it. If there’s a likelihoood that taking Fuckwitase will cause me to dance in the street with a Samurai sword, I’ll choose another med, or make sure a big and strong enough friend is nearby to keep me from engaging in stupitude. Here’s what you folks aren’t grasping-Mr. Kennedy is a lawmaker, yet he isn’t capable of managing his own person, apparently. Like his father, the stupid SOB can’t handle himself and his substance issues, but so many want to give him a pass. When he’s a private citizen, I don’t really give a shit what he drinks, smokes, or snorts, but when he’s allegedly working for the US as a representative, he ought to clean up his fucking act or get out. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/131 "2006-05-07T03:00:21Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > There are conservatives who register as Democrats just to ratfuck the Party in closed primaries, by voting for the weakest candidate they would like to see go up against the Republican candidate. Judging by your track record here, if you are indeed registered as a Democract, I suspect that is the case. I don’t believe it when you say otherwise. BWAHAHAHAHAHA! You funny! All by my lonesome, I’m fucking the Democratic party over! Go me! Persecution complex much? (All this aside from your monumental ignorance concerning how Maryland politics actually work). ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/132 "2006-05-07T03:10:04Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > BWAHAHAHAHAHA! You funny! All by my lonesome, I’m fucking the Democratic party over! Go me! Persecution complex much? (All this aside from your monumental ignorance concerning how Maryland politics actually work). The point is, no one here believes a word you say. You can spew your silly story about hating Pubs and Dems equally, but nobody’s buying. We know you, and independent, you ain’t. ---
**Author:** ![Salem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Salem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salem)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/133 "2006-05-07T03:15:25Z")
I completely agree with people taking responsibility for their behavior, especially when it could involve the safety of others, and not serving up a platter (especially a sterling-silver one) full of excuses. I also see from reading a few articles on Ambien that it is addictive and certainly anyone with prior history of addictions should never have been prescribed the med to begin with, and if he was serious about facing his addictions, he certainly should have read the literature and chosen NOT to take it. I’m not giving the guy a free pass by any means. BUT, nowhere on the company website do I see anything that would indicate that a person could get up out of a sound sleep and jump in their car for a ride. I didn’t even see any mention of sleepwalking. If I looked at the list of indications and side effects, I would not in a million years think that I would be capable of doing something like that with no conscious awareness. It talks about amnesia and (obviously drowsiness) but says as long as you go to bed right away and don’t have to be awakend before 7-8 hours sleep has passed, that amnesia won’t be an issue cause you’ll be asleep. Again, this may all just be a great excuse for the guy, and given his addictive history, I think he was irresponsible in taking it to begin with, but just say for a minute that it was someone else -no history, no position to uphold- if the same thing happened, how would you view the situation? I’m an average Joe (or Joe-ette, in this case). I’m prescribed a sleep med, I take it and end up driving my car into a phone pole, taking three cars out on the way. After 8 hours, the med wears off and I have no clue what happened. Am I guilty of the traffic violations? (And I do believe the police were absolutely wrong in not doing any kind of alcohol testing.) ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/134 "2006-05-07T03:40:15Z")
> [@Salem](#): > > Getting back to the actual OP and the incident it involves… > Here’s a link on the [effects of Ambien](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=340837&highlight=Ambien) posted by our very own **lieu** and followed up with similar stories that seem (anecdotally, of course) to support the plausibility of Kennedy’s story. Does that account for the cop that said that he smelled hooch, or the woman at the bar who claimed to have seen him there for a few hours? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/135 "2006-05-07T03:54:09Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Yeah, but the first one of those, in fact the first reply of any kind to the OP, is **Airman Door** ’s sophomoric and entirely predictable Chappaquiddick reference, which kind of makes it a bit less of a straw man, doesn’t it? Sohpmoric? Sure. Easy cheap shot? Absolutely. True? Sure is. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/136 "2006-05-07T04:56:24Z")
> [@Salem](#): > > I’m an average Joe (or Joe-ette, in this case). I’m prescribed a sleep med, I take it and end up driving my car into a phone pole, taking three cars out on the way. After 8 hours, the med wears off and I have no clue what happened. Am I guilty of the traffic violations? You bet you are. You or your evil twin. ---
**Author:** ![Salem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Salem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salem)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/137 "2006-05-07T11:49:59Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Does that account for the cop that said that he smelled hooch, or the woman at the bar who claimed to have seen him there for a few hours? No, and reading the warnings on the Ambien website, they specifically caution not to use alcohol with the medication. And that goes back to the issue that the cops at the scene didn’t do a breathalyzer, which was totally wrong since we will never know his BAL. My guess would be that if Kennedy(or anyone else taking the medication) had had even just a couple of drinks over the course of a few hours -nothing that would put him over the legal limit - it would exacerbate the effects of the medication and could have caused the escalation in the side effects. In that case, I would see that as HIS culpability, having made the decision to use the medication after drinking any amount of alcohol or enough that it was still in his system (If and) when he took the Ambien. We really don’t even have conclusive evidence, that I’ve seen, at least, that he DID take the medication. If the cops had done their job, we’d at least have some of those variables defined. A couple of years ago I had some dental work done and was given an rx for percocet. Since I had taken it in the hospital years before when I’d had my first daughter and I knew it could knock me for a loop, I didn’t take it until there was someone else there that would be responsible for my kids. (Good thing, too, cause I tripped over a piece of bread and they laughed at me. Rotten kids.) But if my kids hadn’t been home, I wouldn’t have had someone stay with me figuring I’d take it and just go to bed. What if I had some bizarre reaction that had not been in the ‘possible side effects’ literature, that I had not experienced in prior use of the same medication, and got up and drove my car without knowing it? Whether I was a private citizen or a member of Congress, wouldn’t make a difference. That’s some pretty scary stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/138 "2006-05-07T13:24:56Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > > [@Salem](#): > > > > I’m an average Joe (or Joe-ette, in this case). I’m prescribed a sleep med, I take it and end up driving my car into a phone pole, taking three cars out on the way. After 8 hours, the med wears off and I have no clue what happened. Am I guilty of the traffic violations? > > > > (And I do believe the police were absolutely wrong in not doing any kind of alcohol testing.) > > You bet you are. You or your evil twin. Under what legal theory? This is not drunk driving. You didn’t have the requisite _mens rea_. You did not have any knowledge, actual or constructive, about what the medication might do to you. So why would you be guilty? Explain your reasoning, please. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/139 "2006-05-07T13:38:24Z")
Why do you think someone prescribed a med would not be informed as to what the side effects are? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510/140 "2006-05-07T13:58:26Z")
Also, don’t they usually have written warnings about operating motor vehicles on the bottle? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abysmal-judgement-gene-rears-its-ugly-head-again-kennedy-stupidity/355510.md?page=8)