# Academia: What's the story with "consolation" master's degrees? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 4, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/academia-whats-the-story-with-consolation-masters-degrees/646058 "2013-01-04T14:34:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/academia-whats-the-story-with-consolation-masters-degrees/646058/41 "2013-01-06T20:07:58Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > In California it is very common for people to go to a Community College for two years and then transfer credits to a UC or CU school. Lots of people do it because community colleges are significantly cheaper than four year colleges… Yes I know that. It’s possible to do an AS or AA at a community college and transfer to a State University in many states and more or less have approximately half your requirements for a four year degree complete via the community college credits you already have. The intent was whether there are four year programs at _a single school_ where you can more or less take a break halfway through and take an AS or AA, then continue on if you want to complete the bachelor’s degree you intended to complete at the beginning and to which you were admitted as a candidate. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/academia-whats-the-story-with-consolation-masters-degrees/646058/42 "2013-01-06T20:17:42Z")
Some schools have combined MA/Ph.D. programs where the students join as MA candidates, and upon receiving their MA, can apply to continue for a Ph.D. My girlfriend is in such a program. However, that’s an engineering degree, and there are lots and lots of jobs available for engineers with their MA; a Ph.D. helps, but there’s plenty of work even if you don’t have one. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/academia-whats-the-story-with-consolation-masters-degrees/646058/43 "2013-01-07T01:42:20Z")
I have a “terminal” CS master’s degree, as a purely technical versus academic degree, from our state university. My program was entirely paid for by my employer - I never saw a single bill from the university; the company even pre-ordered the textbooks and handled all registration and tuition fees directly with the university. This was the largest computer company at the time (“think” of a company with a three letter name; I don’t think they have such a generous program now.) When I was about halfway through the program I applied for the PhD program and was unable to get in because my program wasn’t thesis based. I think it was partly because the company was only interested in the master’s program. The master degree didn’t get me anything “extra” at the computer company besides a steak dinner. However, when I got laid off from the computer company, I was able to land a CS instructor job at a community college using my master’s degree. And that has turned out to be my dream job, so I’m pleased with it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/academia-whats-the-story-with-consolation-masters-degrees/646058/44 "2013-01-07T02:56:50Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Yes I know that. It’s possible to do an AS or AA at a community college and transfer to a State University in many states and more or less have approximately half your requirements for a four year degree complete via the community college credits you already have. > > The intent was whether there are four year programs at _a single school_ where you can more or less take a break halfway through and take an AS or AA, then continue on if you want to complete the bachelor’s degree you intended to complete at the beginning and to which you were admitted as a candidate. I was responding to **Shagnasty** who works in a place where things are not so structured. I had already responded that I wasn’t aware of any such program, but I’d not be surprised if some technical type schools, like nursing colleges, have them. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/academia-whats-the-story-with-consolation-masters-degrees/646058/45 "2013-01-07T03:22:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > This is opposite of my experience. My grad school (physics) also had separate options for a “thesis masters” or “coursework masters”, but the thesis masters was recommended for those pursuing a terminal master’s degree, while the coursework master’s was recommended for those pursuing a master’s en route to the PhD. The thinking was that if you’re going to write a PhD thesis eventually, the master’s thesis was kind of redundant, and meanwhile the coursework requirement for the coursework master’s was essentially the same as the coursework requirement for the PhD, so you’d be getting it anyway. This is the case in some chemistry programs as well. The example I’m aware of awarded an MS or MA for thesis or coursework, respectively. In this case, those continuing for a PhD did not bother with an MA. An MS was for folks who couldn’t cut it after a few years of effort. The MA was for the fuck-ups who bailed even earlier. I doubt that most employers were aware of or cared about the distinction. At my school, I went to the chemistry office during the summer before my 2nd year and asked for an MS. They asked me to sign a form and I received a diploma in the mail for the December graduation. Most people didn’t bother with this, but I had some logistical uncertainty ahead of me and wanted it just in case. Easiest degree I ever “earned”. Then again, I never even defended my PhD dissertation. Just turned it in and sent the forms to my committee for them to sign. It’s largely a formality for chemistry in the US; they won’t let you defend if you’re not going to pass (although I suppose you could insist.) Some schools (Cal?) don’t bother with the defense any more. Mine was more a logistical hurdle and no one wanted to bother, so we didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/academia-whats-the-story-with-consolation-masters-degrees/646058/46 "2013-01-07T03:24:52Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Since it was fairly expensive to stay enrolled in the doctoral program, this wasn’t something that most people could keep doing indefinitely. Most got the message in a year or three. There were a couple of stubborn dumb fucks I wouldn’t be surprised are still paying fees to get a doctorate they’ll never live to see. If you’re paying money to a school for a science PhD, that’s a good sign that you shouldn’t be there. Hell, if the school isn’t paying you enough for food and a roof, that’s a good sign that you shouldn’t be there. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/academia-whats-the-story-with-consolation-masters-degrees/646058/47 "2013-01-07T03:49:58Z")
Here I am triple posting like a jackass. > [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > The consolation label would tickle a lot of these chemistry masters. A US PhD in organic chemistry must be in the top 5 (and maybe top 1) ball-breaking academic programs you could ever put yourself through. Oh we like to complain a lot, but it really isn’t all that bad for most people with 70 hours a week to spare. I know plenty of folks of questionable intellect sporting the same degree I have. They were actually kind of motivating: “If this jackass can do it, so can I!” > [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > They get to swerve all that, a great job and in 5 years time when their contemporary PhDs are graduating who knows what the future will look like? Reported average time to complete a chemistry PhD is ~5.5 years. Folks with a 5 year MS are doing it wrong and are an indication that there’s a problem with their advisor or the program. Good source for PhD stats: [http://sites.nationalacademies.org/PGA/Resdoc/](http://sites.nationalacademies.org/PGA/Resdoc/) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/academia-whats-the-story-with-consolation-masters-degrees/646058/48 "2013-01-07T13:18:13Z")
I’ve been thinking about “consolation degrees” at the Bachelors level and I remember something sort of similar from my college days. It was quite common for people in Math/Science who couldn’t hack the regular degree to switch to the Secondary Ed track in that field. Fewer/easier courses in the major (but coursework in Education plus student teaching). The degree was still labeled the same as for regular majors and they’d get a teaching certificate as well. I heard people actually admit they weren’t smart enough to understand the upper division material so they may as well become teachers. Uuuuugggh. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/academia-whats-the-story-with-consolation-masters-degrees/646058/49 "2013-01-07T13:43:27Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > I’ve been thinking about “consolation degrees” at the Bachelors level and I remember something sort of similar from my college days. > > It was quite common for people in Math/Science who couldn’t hack the regular degree to switch to the Secondary Ed track in that field. Fewer/easier courses in the major (but coursework in Education plus student teaching). The degree was still labeled the same as for regular majors and they’d get a teaching certificate as well. > > I heard people actually admit they weren’t smart enough to understand the upper division material so they may as well become teachers. Uuuuugggh. It’s funny but probably true. I got my BS in Physics, then went on to get an MS in Science Education. It was a research-based masters degree focusing specifically on how to best teach science, and I got to focus a lot on teaching physics and how best to teach it. It was _ridiculously_ easy compared to my undergraduate work. However, the masters program was actually pretty competitive and we didn’t have any doofuses. These were all people who got a BS in some real science field first. Even still, education degrees are so easy. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/academia-whats-the-story-with-consolation-masters-degrees/646058/50 "2013-01-07T14:27:16Z")
Worth mentioning the “Gentleman’s 3rd.” In the British system (and many of the colonies including here in Oz) most undergraduate degrees have an optional 4th year - the honours year. This is close in content to a coursework masters (so much so that masters students commonly take subjects from the course - although the honours level subjects are usually harder) and in many ways the content is similar to (although shorter than) the higher degree coursework component in the US. Anyway, in the UK, especially at Oxbridge and the like, the idiot sons of the aristocracy and landed classes would take time off to get a useless degree in classics, and often receive a third class degree. (Degrees come in 1st class, upper 2nd, lower 2nd and 3rd.) 1st and upper 2nd are required to progress to PhD or to gain entry into the plum jobs in the public service. A 3rd is really a fail, but is bestowed upon the idiot sons - the gentleman’s 3rd. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/academia-whats-the-story-with-consolation-masters-degrees/646058/51 "2013-01-07T16:10:54Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > Worth mentioning the “Gentleman’s 3rd.” In the British system (and many of the colonies including here in Oz) most undergraduate degrees have an optional 4th year - the honours year. This is close in content to a coursework masters (so much so that masters students commonly take subjects from the course - although the honours level subjects are usually harder) and in many ways the content is similar to (although shorter than) the higher degree coursework component in the US. Anyway, in the UK, especially at Oxbridge and the like, the idiot sons of the aristocracy and landed classes would take time off to get a useless degree in classics, and often receive a third class degree. (Degrees come in 1st class, upper 2nd, lower 2nd and 3rd.) 1st and upper 2nd are required to progress to PhD or to gain entry into the plum jobs in the public service. A 3rd is really a fail, but is bestowed upon the idiot sons - the gentleman’s 3rd. Or the Desmond - the 2:2 🙂 The Desmond seems to have suffered as a result of grade inflation over the years - it’s usually seen as a bit of a mediocre effort nowadays (nae offense to the Desmond merchants on here). Back in the old days, though, I’m pretty sure it was the average degree class awarded and quite respectable. 2:1 was very good and a first really outstanding. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/academia-whats-the-story-with-consolation-masters-degrees/646058/52 "2013-01-07T17:02:19Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > Or the Desmond - the 2:2 🙂 > > The Desmond seems to have suffered as a result of grade inflation over the years - it’s usually seen as a bit of a mediocre effort nowadays (nae offense to the Desmond merchants on here). > Back in the old days, though, I’m pretty sure it was the average degree class awarded and quite respectable. 2:1 was very good and a first really outstanding. Can you help this yank understand the differences? I found [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_undergraduate_degree_classification) which gives a rough correlation between Oxbridge degree classifications and US undergraduate GPA values. What is it that determines an Oxbridge degree level? Yes, I know it is largely based on ability and effort, but how is it calculated? Is it basically a GPA - like calculation where course and/or test scores are averaged, or is it more subjective and professors give a numeric grade and then give a separate recommendation as to what degree level they think the student is worthy of? ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/academia-whats-the-story-with-consolation-masters-degrees/646058/53 "2013-01-07T17:18:54Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Can you help this yank understand the differences? I found [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_undergraduate_degree_classification) which gives a rough correlation between Oxbridge degree classifications and US undergraduate GPA values. What is it that determines an Oxbridge degree level? Yes, I know it is largely based on ability and effort, but how is it calculated? Is it basically a GPA - like calculation where course and/or test scores are averaged, or is it more subjective and professors give a numeric grade and then give a separate recommendation as to what degree level they think the student is worthy of? It’s just a simple cumulative percentage from your exams and coursework (Desmond being 50-60%), not a separate recommendation or anything like that. So sounds very GPA like (although there may be some distinction I’m unaware of). There’s talk of doing away with the classification system and just having a raw mark. I think because it’s bogus to distinguish student A prancing around with her first class degree at 71% versus student B with his 2:1 at 68%. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/academia-whats-the-story-with-consolation-masters-degrees/646058/54 "2013-01-07T17:25:27Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > It’s just a simple cumulative percentage from your exams and coursework (Desmond being 50-60%), not a separate recommendation or anything like that. So sounds very GPA like (although there may be some distinction I’m unaware of). > > There’s talk of doing away with the classification system and just having a raw mark. I think because it’s bogus to distinguish student A prancing around with her first class degree at 71% versus student B with his 2:1 at 68%. I looked again at the article and that’s what it seems like. It’s very similar to the US GPA system but it’s a different scale. It’s not like you get high test scores but then you can’t find a professor willing to recommend you for First Class Honours and so you have to settle for something less. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/academia-whats-the-story-with-consolation-masters-degrees/646058/55 "2013-01-07T18:00:58Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Can you help this yank understand the differences? I found [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_undergraduate_degree_classification) which gives a rough correlation between Oxbridge degree classifications and US undergraduate GPA values… The article also says that, “…At some universities, candidates who successfully complete one or more years of degree-level study, but do not complete the full degree course, may be awarded a lower qualification: a Certificate of Higher Education or Higher National Certificate for one year of study, or a Diploma of Higher Education or Higher National Diploma for two years…” but the statement is unsourced. If it’s true, then those would seem like they could be considered to be “consolation” qualifications for students who, for some reason, can’t or don’t want to complete their bachelor’s degree. I guess you could also decide from the get-go that you only want a Higher National Diploma without intending to finish a BS or BA and so the qualification might be similar in nature (though lower in stature) to the master’s degrees described above that can be earned intentionally as an end to themselves, as a waypoint on the way to a higher qualification, or as a consolation prize for someone who failed out or quit after reaching a specific minimum level of achievement that fell short of their original intent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/academia-whats-the-story-with-consolation-masters-degrees/646058.md?page=2)