# Acceptable American pronunciation of dead European writers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 31, 2007, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774 "2007-07-31T03:12:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/1 "2007-07-31T03:12:40Z")
I am notorious for my inability to pronounce words properly. This issue is especially problematic when trying to pronounce the names of people like Proust, Sartre and Nietzsche. Not that these guys come up in conversation all that often. Now, in American English there appear to be acceptable pronunciations that are understood and popular, but not the pronunciation that the particular gentleman himself would have used. I tend to pronounce most Japanese words as native Japanese would due to my heritage. Tempura is the classic word that I pronounce differently than most Americans. I tend to mix and match Spanish depending on what the overwhelming popular local usage is. I pronounce Los Angeles just like everybody else. I’ve tried my American pronunciation of Sartre (I seem to recall my AP English teacher pronounced it this way) and was snootily reprimanded by some Danish dude. I noticed that Steve Carrell had a distinctively different of Proust than I have. So what’s Straight Dope on pronunciation of Dead European Guys that nobody reads, both the acceptable American pronunciation and the actual pronunciation. Dead Guy; My American guess; My native language guess. Proust; prowst; proost. Sartre; sart; sart. Nietzsche; NEE-chay; NEE-chay. Thank you for making appear less stupid. By the way, the snooty Danish dude was carrying around a no cost 200 page computer printed one-sided treatise by Sartre in lieu of a lightweight paperback. This was while backpacking in Patagonia. Now who was looking stupid, anyhow? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/2 "2007-07-31T03:16:15Z")
Nietzsche’s peachy, but Sartre’s smarter. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/3 "2007-07-31T03:23:26Z")
Proust = proost Nietzsche = nee’ chuh (with a schwa) Oops, forgot Sartre. Sartre = sar’ truh (with a schwa again, though I’ve generally heard this with almost an unhearable schwa. Sar’truh) ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/4 "2007-07-31T03:31:07Z")
[QUOTE=Darryl Lict] Now who was looking stupid, anyhow? [/QUOTE] The guy trying to figure out how to pronounce authors that he’s never read, and it seems never will? > [@](#): > > So what’s Straight Dope on pronunciation of Dead European Guys that nobody reads, ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/5 "2007-07-31T04:45:40Z")
[QUOTE=Struan] The guy trying to figure out how to pronounce authors that he’s never read, and it seems never will? [/QUOTE] Ouch. I have read No Exit, though. I’ve tried to read some Nietzsche, but yeah I probably won’t read any in the future. I suspect the same for Proust. It’s still nice to know the pronunciation, and have a vague notion of their philosophies. Thanks for info **jsgoddess**. The barely perceptible schwa is the way I heard it. I’ll go with a louder schwa, just to make it easer. I guess at least some Americans must pronounce it Sarter, though. ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/6 "2007-07-31T04:56:46Z")
Can we add Sri Lankans to this thread? If so, does anyone know how to pronounce the “Ondaatje” in Michael Ondaatje? ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/7 "2007-07-31T05:07:13Z")
You can re-impress the Danish snob by pronouncing Kierkegaard right! It’s Kierke-gor’–sort of. The “aa” is an “oh” sound really, and the d is nearly silent. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/8 "2007-07-31T05:14:26Z")
[QUOTE=Darryl Lict] I suspect the same for Proust [/QUOTE] I’d have a go at Proust if I were you. It took me a few years to realize that my French is nowhere good enough, so I gave up and started again on the current Penguin translation. There’s something about it that draws me in… > [@](#): > > Many years had elapsed during which nothing of Combray, save what was comprised in the theatre and the drama of my going to bed there, had any existence for me, when one day in winter, on my return home, my mother, seeing that I was cold, offered me some tea, a thing I did not ordinarily take. ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/9 "2007-07-31T05:42:22Z")
I just learned everything I have to know about Proust from this [video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8rhIw_9ucA). It must be definitively OK to pronounce it Prowst, if Monty Python pronounce it that way. By the way, how do you pronounce T. Coraghessan Boyle’s middle name? Just in case I see him hanging out in a bar around town. ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/10 "2007-07-31T06:03:40Z")
OK, Monty Python agrees with **jsgoddess** on all accounts. These links may not be valid in the future. [Nietzsche](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrShK-NVMIU). Damn, that’s funny. [Sartre](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccYh8iZC5-E). I’ll still go with Prowst, though. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/11 "2007-07-31T22:30:09Z")
I used to be a snob about this, but living in Spain for a couple of years cured me. Prince William is simply \*Principe Guillermo \* and he lives in _Londres_. This MB is based in Chicago in \*Estados Unidos \* (abbreviated EE.UU.) where thare’s a city called _Nueva York_. The currency Price William uses is the \*Libra \* and of course, should he go to _Nueva York_, he has to exchange it for _Dolares_. All in all, every language has its own way of adapting words and names from other languages. If you can make yourself understood, don’t sweat it. BTW, to me, it sounds a bit pretentious if someone speaking English would use the Spanish way of saying the name for Seville - roughly [Sebeeyah]. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2007, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/12 "2007-08-01T00:20:23Z")
[QUOTE=valleyofthedolls] Can we add Sri Lankans to this thread? If so, does anyone know how to pronounce the “Ondaatje” in Michael Ondaatje? [/QUOTE] If it’s pronounced as the original Dutch surname, it’s “On-DAHT-chee”. > [@](#): > > By the way, how do you pronounce T. Coraghessan Boyle’s middle name? Just in case I see him hanging out in a bar around town. Cor-RAG-i-suhn, approximately. ---
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2007, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/13 "2007-08-01T00:22:29Z")
“I don’t know about the other two, but the one in the middle looks like James Joyce.” ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2007, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/14 "2007-08-01T00:24:23Z")
While we’re trying to look smart, I’ll throw it in that Evelyn Waugh was a _man_. And that Kant, as in Immanuel Kant, isn’t actually pronounced “kahnt.” But polite society will keep pronouncing it that way, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![PastAllReason](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f07891/32.png) [@PastAllReason](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastAllReason)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2007, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/15 "2007-08-01T00:27:44Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] If it’s pronounced as the original Dutch surname, it’s “On-DAHT-chee”. [/QUOTE] It is. ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2007, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/16 "2007-08-01T02:13:28Z")
[QUOTE=Sattua] While we’re trying to look smart, I’ll throw it in that Evelyn Waugh was a _man_. [/QUOTE] Evelyn Waugh was also a woman. Evelyn Waugh (the man) married Evelyn Gardner (the woman) in 1928. Their friends called them He-Evelyn and She-Evelyn. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2007, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/17 "2007-08-01T02:23:21Z")
Neither dead nor European, but I want to know how the investigative journalist/author [William Langewiesche](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Langewiesche) says _his_ name. (My guess: LANG-guh-wee-shee.) ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2007, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/18 "2007-08-01T03:13:29Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] If it’s pronounced as the original Dutch surname, it’s “On-DAHT-chee”. [/QUOTE] My Dutch is pretty rusty, but wouldn’t “Ondaatje” be pronounced more like: “On-DA.AHT-chyuh” ? (The “DA.AH” is my contrived way to indicate that “daat” is something of a diphthong as opposed to the way “dat” would sound in Dutch–like the difference between “kaas” and “kas”. Also the “On” seems to me it would be a little more like something between “Own” and “On”, but not quite. That’s just the way I remember the Dutch being pronounced but maybe the Dutch where I was was kinda funky.) ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2007, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/19 "2007-08-01T03:20:09Z")
BUT-- Ondaatje is not who I came here to speak about tonight. No sir. I came here to talk about that “GARE-tah” guy. 😃😃😃 :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2007, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/20 "2007-08-01T06:00:23Z")
[QUOTE=I Love Me, Vol. I] BUT-- Ondaatje is not who I came here to speak about tonight. No sir. I came here to talk about that “GARE-tah” guy. 😃😃😃 :eek: [/QUOTE] Are you talking about GUR-tah? What’s goethe on there? I’m just guessing, this is the next guy I’m asking about. [QUOTE=dangermom] You can re-impress the Danish snob by pronouncing Kierkegaard right! It’s Kierke-gor’–sort of. The “aa” is an “oh” sound really, and the d is nearly silent. [/QUOTE] Hey, please spell the whole thing out. Is it keer-keh-GOHr? Thanks. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774.md?page=2)