# Acceptable American pronunciation of dead European writers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 31, 2007, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774 "2007-07-31T03:12:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2007, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/21 "2007-08-01T08:02:35Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] If it’s pronounced as the original Dutch surname, it’s “On-DAHT-chee”. [/QUOTE] Thanks! [QUOTE=SAttua] And that Kant, as in Immanuel Kant, isn’t actually pronounced “kahnt.” But polite society will keep pronouncing it that way, anyway. [/QUOTE] With apologies to polite society but Kant=Cunt? ---
**Author:** ![Lisa-go-Blind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Lisa-go-Blind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lisa-go-Blind)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/22 "2007-08-02T00:25:03Z")
[QUOTE=Sattua] And that Kant, as in Immanuel Kant, isn’t actually pronounced “kahnt.” But polite society will keep pronouncing it that way, anyway. [/QUOTE] Really? “Kant” is a German last name, and A’s are generally pronounced “ah” in that case. For example, the phrase “Was ist das?” is (roughly) pronouced “Vahs iest dahss,” not “Vuhs iest duhss.” ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/23 "2007-08-02T00:30:26Z")
[QUOTE=Chez Guevara] Evelyn Waugh was also a woman. Evelyn Waugh (the man) married Evelyn Gardner (the woman) in 1928. Their friends called them He-Evelyn and She-Evelyn. [/QUOTE] And, IIRC, He-Evelyn’s first E is long; hers is short. \*Eevlin, meet Evalin. \* ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/24 "2007-08-02T05:07:49Z")
How about dead painters? I always heard VanGogh pronounced Van GO, but then I heard it pronounced Van Goff and lately I have heard it pronounced Van Gochhh (as in loch ness.) Which is it? Anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/25 "2007-08-02T05:21:02Z")
And I still want to know how to pronounce Goethe. ---
**Author:** ![mkl12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@mkl12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkl12)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/26 "2007-08-02T07:53:56Z")
[QUOTE=Lisa-go-Blind] Really? “Kant” is a German last name, and A’s are generally pronounced “ah” in that case. For example, the phrase “Was ist das?” is (roughly) pronouced “Vahs iest dahss,” not “Vuhs iest duhss.” [/QUOTE] Kant in German is pronounced exactly the same way as cunt in English. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/27 "2007-08-02T08:15:31Z")
[QUOTE=mkl12] Kant in German is pronounced exactly the same way as cunt in English. [/QUOTE] I think this may depend on what variety of English you speak. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![mkl12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@mkl12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkl12)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/28 "2007-08-02T08:30:33Z")
[QUOTE=WotNot] I think this may depend on what variety of English you speak. :dubious: [/QUOTE] That’s true, of course. I have recorded an mp3 of me saying Kant, Goethe and Nietzsche. Does anyone know where I can upload it? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/29 "2007-08-02T08:38:13Z")
[QUOTE=Darryl Lict] And I still want to know how to pronounce Goethe. [/QUOTE] I think it’s GEE-teh (or possibly GEE-theh). ---
**Author:** ![mkl12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@mkl12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkl12)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/30 "2007-08-02T08:47:12Z")
Here are some audio files: The German pronunciation of Kant is much closer to this: [http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?cunt0001.wav=cunt](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?cunt0001.wav=cunt) than to this: [http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?bixkan04.wav=Kant](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?bixkan04.wav=Kant) ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/31 "2007-08-02T08:48:04Z")
Just go to [m-w.com](http://m-w.com) and look them up. There’s an audio pronunciation with each of those. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/32 "2007-08-02T09:16:22Z")
[QUOTE=Struan] The guy trying to figure out how to pronounce authors that he’s never read, and it seems never will? [/QUOTE] ‘Moi’ is pronouced ‘mwa’. I mention this because it will come in handy if anyone needs to say “Pretentious? Moi?” ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/33 "2007-08-02T10:10:00Z")
[QUOTE=Fish] Just go to [m-w.com](http://m-w.com) and look them up. There’s an audio pronunciation with each of those. [/QUOTE] Crap, I didn’t realize M-W had pronouns in the dictionary. Hah, it doesn’t contain Langewiesche, Ondaatje, or Coraghessan! ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/34 "2007-08-02T10:20:18Z")
[QUOTE=Darryl Lict] And I still want to know how to pronounce Goethe. [/QUOTE] In German it sounds (to my ear) like Gur (like cur)- tuh. ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/35 "2007-08-02T10:25:38Z")
[QUOTE=mkl12] Kant in German is pronounced exactly the same way as cunt in English. [/QUOTE] No, it’s not, but it could easily be mistaken for that. As Lisa-go-blind says the german short a sounds basically like our “ah.” Thus Kant would sound approximately like “Kahnt.” A very clipped pronunciation could sound very similar to cunt, but it’s not supposed to. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/36 "2007-08-02T10:39:23Z")
[QUOTE=Darryl Lict] Crap, I didn’t realize M-W had \*\*pronouns \*\*in the dictionary. Hah, it doesn’t contain Langewiesche, Ondaatje, or Coraghessan! [/QUOTE] Do you mean proper names? ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/37 "2007-08-02T10:46:17Z")
[QUOTE=Sir Prize] Do you mean proper names? [/QUOTE] Yeah, I knew someone would say that. I missed the edit window. ---
**Author:** ![mkl12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@mkl12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkl12)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/38 "2007-08-02T10:51:39Z")
[QUOTE=denquixote] No, it’s not, but it could easily be mistaken for that. As Lisa-go-blind says the german short a sounds basically like our “ah.” Thus Kant would sound approximately like “Kahnt.” A very clipped pronunciation could sound very similar to cunt, but it’s not supposed to. [/QUOTE] Please listen to the to m-w links I posted above. Are you saying that the way they say Kant there is the correct German way? If so, you’re wrong. It may be the preferable way of saying the name in English, but I’ve never heard anyone in Germany saying it like that. And I am German. Everybody in Germany pronounces the name almost exactly like “cunt” is pronounced in the m-w link. ---
**Author:** ![Panurge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/fbc32d/32.png) [@Panurge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Panurge)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/39 "2007-08-02T12:04:01Z")
[QUOTE=Darryl Lict] Hey, please spell the whole thing out. Is it keer-keh-GOHr? Thanks. [/QUOTE] Almost: The stress is on the first syllable, making it KEER-kuh-gohr. The “gohr” is the same sound as in Al Gore - only shorter. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2007, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774/40 "2007-08-02T12:45:50Z")
[QUOTE=mkl12] Please listen to the to m-w links I posted above. Are you saying that the way they say Kant there is the correct German way? If so, you’re wrong. It may be the preferable way of saying the name in English, but I’ve never heard anyone in Germany saying it like that. And I am German. Everybody in Germany pronounces the name almost exactly like “cunt” is pronounced in the m-w link. [/QUOTE] My philosophy professor at Uni. Hannover said it as “_Kahnt_”. Possibly in other regions the middle “a” will have a different sound. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptable-american-pronunciation-of-dead-european-writers/413774.md?page=3)