# Acceptance of Homosexuality leads to the Collapse of Civilization? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 7, 2012, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptance-of-homosexuality-leads-to-the-collapse-of-civilization/608716 "2012-01-07T09:19:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptance-of-homosexuality-leads-to-the-collapse-of-civilization/608716/161 "2012-01-18T09:32:50Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I never heard of him making any statements along those lines. As far as I can tell, it comes [from Michael Reagan](http://books.google.com/books?id=kHnEMC2_KoIC&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67): > [@](#): > > My father hoped that the no-fault statutes would reduce acrimony, legal costs, and harm to the children of divorce. Instead, divorce rates soared 250 percent nationwide from 1960 to 1980. Dad later said that signing that bill was one of the worst mistakes of his political career. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptance-of-homosexuality-leads-to-the-collapse-of-civilization/608716/162 "2012-01-18T09:45:44Z")
Funny thing about the quote is the second sentence doesn’t relate to the first. That divorce became more common doesn’t mean that for the individual couples it was more acrimonious, costly or damaging. ---
**Author:** ![BSweet69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@BSweet69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BSweet69)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptance-of-homosexuality-leads-to-the-collapse-of-civilization/608716/163 "2012-01-19T15:46:28Z")
> [@dorsk188](#): > > When I was in college, a friend of mine alluded to the idea that “the Romans accepted homosexuality and it resulted in the Empire’s collapse”. I quickly and derisively told her that the Roman Empire actually collapsed after making Christianity the compulsory faith of the state. That certainly shut her up, and it’s mostly true, but I was just using her flawed logic to shut her down. Ever since then I’ve wondered where her idea came from. > > I’ve done some limited research and found the story of homosexual mores in Rome is fairly complicated, but it seems that the culture became more puritanical as it was in decline. Is there anything that supports her idea that gayer empires will prematurely fall while straight ones last longer? Or is it, as I suspect, a just-so impromptu argument developed by fundamental Christians to support their basic bigotry? If the latter, any idea where such a wrong idea originated? I think by NOT accepting homosexuality that we create one more avenue of violence toward people who don’t think what we think they should think. Therefore, by being more accepting we would REDUCE decline and promote growth. None of my business. Or, maybe those bad straight people should quit having gay babies? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptance-of-homosexuality-leads-to-the-collapse-of-civilization/608716/164 "2012-01-20T01:47:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So name one. The Shadow Knows! (Why d’ye think he always has Shrevvy around and he never married Margo Lane?) ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptance-of-homosexuality-leads-to-the-collapse-of-civilization/608716/165 "2012-01-20T02:24:38Z")
Lots of people are gay. Lots of straight people have some semblance of moral character and thus support full equality for homosexuals. Neither of those categories wants to work in an environment where irrational bigotry based on a ridiculous book about talking snakes is the guiding principle of people’s behavior. This is going to hurt companies that insist on turning chicken sandwiches into dollars for homophobia campaigns, states that pass laws enshrining a religious right to beat people to death, and other bastions of barbarian thinking, on an economic level. It already happens with things like tourism boycotts on racial grounds, there’s no reason to think there isn’t an analogy to other persecuted minorities. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptance-of-homosexuality-leads-to-the-collapse-of-civilization/608716/166 "2012-01-20T02:51:30Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Are they in cahoots with anyone? Tell me they’re in cahoots! Cahoots is $10 extra, Mister! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptance-of-homosexuality-leads-to-the-collapse-of-civilization/608716/167 "2012-01-20T02:54:15Z")
Imagine if there were a Gay Mafia . . . One would be expected to be very demonstrative, when going on one’s knees to seek a favor of Don Fellatore. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptance-of-homosexuality-leads-to-the-collapse-of-civilization/608716/168 "2012-01-20T02:58:33Z")
Certainly “kiss his ring” might become ambiguous… ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptance-of-homosexuality-leads-to-the-collapse-of-civilization/608716/169 "2012-02-22T03:29:35Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > When I was a kid lots of historical trivia books said his remains indicated he only had one testicle. To my knowledge this has never been proven, nor has it been proven the Soviets really verified his remains. There’s also a very old rumor he fathered a son, [Jean-Marie](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Loret), in France during WW1, also unsubstantiated. Very off-topic from the OP, but as it doesn’t warrant its own thread recently I’m bumping this one to link to a news story from this week: [Did Hitler Have a Secret Sone With a French Teenager?](http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/02/20/did-hitler-have-a-secret-son-with-a-french-teenager/) While there’s no DNA evidence either way, > [@](#): > > And now, recent evidence reported by Le Point magazine has given Loret’s story even more credence. These include official military documents that show cash deliveries to (Loret’s mother, Charlotte) Lobjoie during the German occupation of France. Paintings found in Lobjoie’s attic bear Hitler’s signature. A picture of a woman whom Hitler painted looks just like Lobjoie. It’s an interesting question, “If you could prove you were a descendant of Hitler and by so proving could earn millions from his estate, _would you_?” OTOH, you’re not responsible for any of his crimes, and on the other, he was Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptance-of-homosexuality-leads-to-the-collapse-of-civilization/608716/170 "2012-02-22T04:21:00Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > As far as I can tell, it comes [from Michael Reagan](http://books.google.com/books?id=kHnEMC2_KoIC&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67): Why use 1960 as the start? California’s law didn’t go into effect until January 1, 1970. Why ignore the rates after 1980, while the rate has been going down? Why, because the 1960 was about the bottom of the rate, it had been dropping for decades. It does make for good sound bites but it makes for super poor evidence. “lets select numbers that fit our POV, even if they have no relation to our stated cause” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acceptance-of-homosexuality-leads-to-the-collapse-of-civilization/608716.md?page=8)