# Accepted For Value **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 22, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepted-for-value/525959 "2010-01-22T03:26:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepted-for-value/525959/41 "2012-02-28T18:12:19Z")
> [@alifeworthliving](#): > > Or you can find yourself a lawyer who has clients that are not in prison, but living at home very happily with their families, debt free and maybe learn something from them. Wesley Snipes’ lawyer had a client who wasn’t in prison. Until he was. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepted-for-value/525959/42 "2012-02-28T18:30:58Z")
> [@alifeworthliving](#): > > . . . . Or you can find yourself a lawyer who has clients that are not in prison, but living at home very happily with their families, debt free and maybe learn something from them. > . . . I have known far too many lawyers to share your naive faith in them. ---
**Author:** ![alifeworthliving](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b77776/32.png) [@alifeworthliving](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alifeworthliving)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepted-for-value/525959/43 "2012-02-28T20:33:45Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Like I said before, if there was a magical way to get stuff without paying for it, then why do rich people pay their bills and their taxes like chumps? Aren’t they in on the secret? > > Thing is, it doesn’t make any sense. Why would somebody hand over a house to you, just because you wrote some magic words on a check? All they have to do is not hand over the house, right? And then you go to court, right? Now, does the judge know about the secret magic words? Why isn’t he using them? What’s in it for the Powers-that-be to keep these secret laws and ways of getting out of paying your taxes on the books? Why can’t the Illuminati just secretly change the secret laws so that you really do have to pay your taxes like the other chumps? After all, nobody except you and a few of your smart guy pals know about these secret laws, so if they repealed them, who would notice or care? > > There are a lot of grifters in the world, and the guy a profesional grifter loves to meet is a small-timer grifter like you who thinks he’s got an angle. There is no magical piece of paper to get something for nothing. There are processes to eliminate debt for not nearly what you would have originally paid for it. Have you ever heard of a thing called bankruptcy? I’m not talking about “secret laws” as you say, or any “magical pieces of paper.” I’m talking about remedies for businesses that they don’t teach you in community college. There is obviously also legal way to acquire assets by taking legal action against corporations such as banks. That is common sense. You are not even correctly comprehending what I am reading. I’m not on this blog to say YES THERE’S A MAGICAL PIECE OF PAPER, I’m saying its hilarious how you all write it off so easily…but probably a waste of my time. Who on earth are you referring to as a professional grifter? If it’s my lawyer, I’m not sure what angle he could be getting at… I’m sure he’s too busy managing his corporations that hold his Nightclubs and Real Estate…I’m out now, Cheers. Oh and p.s. rich people don’t pay nearly as high of taxes as the middle class, instead of refuting all of the hearsay, they’ve figured out things in their favor 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepted-for-value/525959/44 "2012-02-28T21:12:04Z")
> [@alifeworthliving](#): > > You are not even correctly comprehending what I am reading. Then perhaps you can explain, in simple terms, what you mean. Because up till now you’ve been spewing some nonsense. For example, there is no such thing as sovereign citizens. It simply doesn’t exist no matter what people have been saying to you. It is false, it isn’t recognized by the courts, and people who tried using it have ended up in jail. Once you disavow that idea people might start taking you seriously. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepted-for-value/525959/45 "2012-02-28T21:26:17Z")
> [@alifeworthliving](#): > > There is no magical piece of paper to get something for nothing. There are processes to eliminate debt for not nearly what you would have originally paid for it. Have you ever heard of a thing called bankruptcy? I’m not talking about “secret laws” as you say, or any “magical pieces of paper.” I’m talking about remedies for businesses that they don’t teach you in community college. There is obviously also legal way to acquire assets by taking legal action against corporations such as banks. That is common sense. > > You are not even correctly comprehending what I am reading. > > I’m not on this blog to say YES THERE’S A MAGICAL PIECE OF PAPER, I’m saying its hilarious how you all write it off so easily…but probably a waste of my time. Who on earth are you referring to as a professional grifter? If it’s my lawyer, I’m not sure what angle he could be getting at… I’m sure he’s too busy managing his corporations that hold his Nightclubs and Real Estate…I’m out now, Cheers. > > Oh and p.s. rich people don’t pay nearly as high of taxes as the middle class, instead of refuting all of the hearsay, they’ve figured out things in their favor 😉 Okay. I’m listening. Give me three concrete examples of what you are talking about, and possibly why you decided to discuss your perfectly legitimate processes under a thread started about the “Accepted for Value” nonsense. No hints, please. I would like to know what your lawyer has told you about restructuring debt or remedies for businesses. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepted-for-value/525959/46 "2012-02-28T21:52:08Z")
> [@alifeworthliving](#): > > As far as sovereign citizens, I know for a fact that you can choose sovereign status for yourself… That’s funny, as we know for a fact that you can’t do that in any meaningful way. > [@](#): > > Whereas I personally know an investor that had just acquired a half a million dollar home fooor free…except for legal fees that is. I have no doubt you know this person. However, I severely doubt that you KNOW he acquired said home in the manner you believe, the following notwithstanding: > [@](#): > > Not that he didn’t get a house for the cost of lawyer fees, I know this for a fact, and I obviously would not prove it, for his privacy. Like I said, you can either believe me, or not… Rest assured we don’t. > [@](#): > > You are not even correctly comprehending what I am reading. We have no idea what you’re reading, but what you’re SAYING seems to defy comprehension. > [@](#): > > …I’m saying its hilarious how you all write it off so easily… And here we find it hilarious you buy it so easily. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepted-for-value/525959/47 "2012-02-28T22:12:29Z")
It’s fun and informative to do a Google on sovereign citizen scams. One site that brings up is the [Quatloos Forum “Sovereign Citizen and Redemption Scams”](http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewforum.php?f=37). Comedy gold plus ignorance fighting. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepted-for-value/525959/48 "2012-02-28T23:35:58Z")
> [@alifeworthliving](#): > > There are processes to eliminate debt for not nearly what you would have originally paid for it. Have you ever heard of a thing called bankruptcy? Of course there are such processes, as you say, bankruptcy is one. However, bankruptcy doesn’t involve renouncing your citizenship or declaring yourself a sovreign citizen or some such nonsense. Your citizenship has no bearing on your debts, being a Canadian or a Russian or a Mexican doesn’t magically mean you your creditors can’t touch you. You owe debts because you incurred them, not because you’re an American citizen. Another method of reducing a debt is getting in touch with your creditors and offering to pay some but not all of the debt. And if they agree, then hey, you got yourself out of debt. But that doesn’t happen because you wrote “Accepted for Value” on the check and they cashed it. It happens because they agreed to accept your partial payment to satisfy the entire debt. And your creditor will only agree to do this if the value of the partial payment is greater than the cost of further litigation. And of course, there’s always the risk that you’ll just declare bankruptcy and get the debt discharged anyway. But this is an entirely voluntary decision by your creditor, if they want they can demand the full amount plus interest, and take you to court, and get a judgement against you, and seize whatever assets they can get their hands on. > [@](#): > > I’m not talking about “secret laws” as you say, or any “magical pieces of paper.” I’m talking about remedies for businesses that they don’t teach you in community college. There is obviously also legal way to acquire assets by taking legal action against corporations such as banks. That is common sense. Well, if a bank owes you money and it won’t pay, of course you can sue the bank and a judge will order the bank to hand over the money it owes you. But the bank has to owe you money in the first place. And yes, of course “lawyers” who tell people they can get out of debt by writing “accepted for value” on a partial payment are grifters. People who say you don’t have to pay taxes if you renounce your American citizenship while still living and working in America are also grifters. People who say that the IRS is keeping a secret $2,000,000 account for you, that you can get if you follow the right formula are also grifters. Lots of grifters out there. ---
**Author:** ![Student80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@Student80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Student80)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepted-for-value/525959/49 "2012-07-24T15:21:43Z")
@ Derleth; Actually alifeworthliving is not spewing nonsense, they are on to something and beginning to get the main ideas, the posts may be a little hard to understand or follow if you do not have enough information on the subject. You should not be defensive and judgmental when you obviously do not have any information on the subjects that were raised; soveriegnty and a4v. I for one, do know something about these things, and would not be willing to share what I know with everyone because not everyone “can handle the truth” lol. Seriously, most people would not be able to live responsibly and act appropriately with the information and I am not interested in seeing our society and global economy go through the upheaval that would follow if somethings became public knowlege. Just a word of advice, if you do not know about something don’t be so quick to deny it exists just because you aren’t privy to the information. With an attitude like that you aren’t likely to find anyone to enlighten you. It takes years of study to be well versed in law and commerce. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepted-for-value/525959/50 "2012-07-24T15:33:32Z")
Oo. Another one. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepted-for-value/525959/51 "2012-07-24T16:16:19Z")
alifeworthliving stopped posting, probably because he’s in jail for tax evasion. ---
**Author:** ![Student80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@Student80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Student80)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepted-for-value/525959/52 "2012-07-24T16:16:56Z")
I would also like to add that the line of thinking is very similar to what the investment bankers were doing to create and profit on paper with artificial values and it eventually blew up them as it would for anyone. People need to go back to common sense to unravel the artificial “magic words” and stop the damage they cause to citizens and society. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepted-for-value/525959/53 "2012-07-24T16:18:35Z")
> [@Student80](#): > > I for one, do know something about these things, and would not be willing to share what I know with everyone because not everyone “can handle the truth” lol. Seriously, most people would not be able to live responsibly and act appropriately with the information and I am not interested in seeing our society and global economy go through the upheaval that would follow if somethings became public knowlege. If you’re not willing to share the information, there would seem to be little point in bumping the thread. Since this thread is old, I’m going to close it. Colibri General Questions Moderator [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepted-for-value/525959.md?page=2)