# Accepting Mexican ID Cards (from illegal aliens)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepting-mexican-id-cards-from-illegal-aliens/197568
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 25, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepting-mexican-id-cards-from-illegal-aliens/197568 "2003-08-25T18:47:10Z")
**Posts on this page:** 13
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepting-mexican-id-cards-from-illegal-aliens/197568/1 "2003-08-25T18:47:10Z")
[Old ID Card Gives New Status to Mexicans in U.S.](http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/25/national/25IMMI.html?ei=5062&en=d650e7c2a9ae4ed8&ex=1062388800&partner=GOOGLE&pagewanted=print&position=)
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> The card has been issued by the Mexican government for more than 100 years to keep track of its citizens in the United States. But across this country cities and states are increasingly recognizing the card, too, as officials seek ways to identify residents in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, and try to better serve immigrants.
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> Many bankers, merchants and politicians have also embraced the card, whose name translates to consular registration, hoping to appeal to the growing number of Hispanic consumers and voters.
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> The shift has been accompanied by a rising outcry, particularly among some Republicans in Congress, who argue that the widening acceptance of the card is creating a de facto amnesty for illegal immigrants.
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> In March 2002, only a handful of cities and banks recognized the matrícula card, Mexican officials say. Today, more than 100 cities, 900 police departments, 100 financial institutions and 13 states, including Indiana, New Mexico and Utah, accept the cards, which carry the bearer’s photo, name and address and are issued by Mexican consulates to Mexicans regardless of their immigration status.
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> Illegal immigrants who carry the matrícula card still risk deportation and are still barred from working by federal law. They cannot use the card to register to vote, change their immigration status or to obtain Social Security numbers or work permits. But they often live more freely in cities that recognize the card. And in several states, possession of a matrícula card is the first step toward a driver’s license.
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> Officials at the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Department of Homeland Security say this is worrisome because they believe the card is vulnerable to fraud and misuse by criminals and terrorists, a contention that Mexican and some American officials dispute.
The main issue with those who oppose accepting the card seems to be homeland security. I have no idea if these concerns are justified. But to me, the major issue is that accepting cards will make things a lot easier for illegal immigrants. Which is nice for them - they have a hard time as it is. But the problem is that this would seem to encourage even greater waves of illegal immigrants to pour into the country. The US immigration laws are abused enough as it is, and the more you degrade the value of legal status, the more you encourage non-compliance with the law. (Not to mention the periodic amnesties - apparently there’s talk of another one).
Of course, one could argue that there is no actual law against, say, an illegal immigrant holding a drivers’ license or opening a bank account - their inability to do so is merely a technical byproduct of their inability to provide valid ID. Still, as a practical matter, I think it would have an undesirable impact, as above.
Beyond this, I find the second stated purpose of accepting the cards - to “try to better serve immigrants” - somewhat annoying. Frankly I have nothing against these illegal immigrants, and sympathize with the conditions that cause them to undergo such hardship in America as illegal immigrants. In fact, if I was in their shoes I might sneak in illegally myself. Still, America has its own interests to look out for as well, and this is reflected in public policy. And the idea that branches of the government should deliberately look to make it easier for lawbreakers of any form to violate the law in greater comfort is inappropriate, IMHO. You want to sneak in, take your best shot. But that the gov should help you do it - while ostensibly outlawing the practice - is wrong.
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### Author:  [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepting-mexican-id-cards-from-illegal-aliens/197568/2 "2003-08-25T20:10:36Z")
Many places will accept foreign passports as identification, too. What exactly is the difference?
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### Author:  [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepting-mexican-id-cards-from-illegal-aliens/197568/3 "2003-08-25T21:37:11Z")
Did you know that many times, even people who are in the U.S. legally are unable to obtain a SS# legally? And in several states, Illinois included, this prevents them from getting a driver’s license? This category includes students (if they are not authorized to work off-campus) and dependents of people here on temporary work visas.
One of my clients, a British multinational executive, had his wife arrested when she was pulled over for speeding and the police discovered she’d been driving around for more than a year on her British license (IL law requires obtaining an IL license within a month of arrival). Luckily for her, her visa category allows her to apply for employment authorization; it takes 3-4 months and several hundred dollars, and she doesn’t even want to work, but if she doesn’t get the work authorization, she can’t get a SS# and therefore a driver’s license. This doesn’t make any sense.
Do you seriously think allowing people to use some reasonably secure proof of identity to carry out basic daily functions like banking and driving is going to encourage more people to enter the U.S. illegally than is already the case? You think they can’t go out and buy a fake SS card?
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### Author:  [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepting-mexican-id-cards-from-illegal-aliens/197568/4 "2003-08-25T21:39:36Z")
The difference is that illegals generally don’t travel with a passport. However, presuming that “Consular ID” must mean “illegal immigrant” is nothing short of racist. Indianapolis accepts them for city services because many LEGAL Mexican immigrants and _Gastarbeitern_ have no other form of recognized identification. Indiana as a state may follow suit.
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### Author:  [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepting-mexican-id-cards-from-illegal-aliens/197568/5 "2003-08-25T21:54:45Z")
Yeah, **Izzy,** did you know that Canadians and Mexicans are not legally required to be in possession of a passport in order to enter the U.S.? What do you suggest they use as official identification?
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### Author:  [@tesseract](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tesseract)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2003, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepting-mexican-id-cards-from-illegal-aliens/197568/6 "2003-08-26T01:53:26Z")
How exactly would allowing otherwise undocumented people to use identifying documentation compromise homeland security?
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### Author:  [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2003, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepting-mexican-id-cards-from-illegal-aliens/197568/7 "2003-08-26T05:16:34Z")
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> \*Originally posted by Dogface \*
> **The difference is that illegals generally don’t travel with a passport.**
This isn’t necessarily true. A good chunk of the “illegal” population in the US are visa overstays - they entered the US legally, but didn’t leave when they were supposed to. Obviously, they would have their passports with them - and many of them would use those passports as ID. They wouldn’t show them to a _government official_, and most of them probably aren’t Mexican, but that’s not really the point.
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### Author:  [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepting-mexican-id-cards-from-illegal-aliens/197568/8 "2003-08-26T13:36:57Z")
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> \*Originally posted by Eva Luna \*
> Did you know that many times, even people who are in the U.S. legally are unable to obtain a SS# legally? And in several states, Illinois included, this prevents them from getting a driver’s license? This category includes students (if they are not authorized to work off-campus) and dependents of people here on temporary work visas.
I am not familiar with the details of these matters. Possibly these rules themselves should be revised somewhat. What I would suggest is the US government giving some alternative form of US ID to these people in lieu of an SS #.
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> Do you seriously think allowing people to use some reasonably secure proof of identity to carry out basic daily functions like banking and driving is going to encourage more people to enter the U.S. illegally than is already the case? You think they can’t go out and buy a fake SS card?
Yes, I seriously think that, and also think your position is detached from reality. I am familiar with the illegal immigrant scene, and they rarely if ever have fake SS cards or bank accounts (I don’t know about driving, though. A lot of these guys just drive around without licenses or insurance - a problem).
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### Author:  [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepting-mexican-id-cards-from-illegal-aliens/197568/9 "2003-08-26T14:59:23Z")
\*\*Izzy, \*\* speaking as someone who spent several years as a Spanish interpreter in Immigration Court, and who has spent her career dealing with immigraiton issues in some form or nother (currently as a paralegal for a private law firm), my position is not divorced from reality.
I don’t know how you are familiar with the “illegal immigrant scene,” but in at least half of the thousands of cases I’ve interpreted for, people who were employed illegally in the U.S. showed some kind of false documentation in order to become emplyed, including SS cards obtained fraudulently (either entirely fake ones, or real ones obtained with other fake docs such as birth certificates, or SS# belonging to other people, living or dead). My co-worker who worked with migrant farm workers confirms this phenomenon.
The process for obtaining a passport or _matricula consular_ is much more secure than the one for obtaining a certified copy of a U.S. birth certificate (these are public record in some states), and certainly much more secure than the process for obtaining a SS# used to be. I really don’t see the problem with it.
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### Author:  [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepting-mexican-id-cards-from-illegal-aliens/197568/10 "2003-08-26T17:09:11Z")
**Eva Luna**
I live in a town that has a very large population of illegal immigrants, and I and others that I know have had extensive dealings with them.
I would suggest that since your dealings with illegal immigrants is in a sort of official capacity, and the people you deal with are precisely those people who are attempting to make it through the system, you are going to have a high percentage of people who have some sort of phony documentation. This does not reflect the reality of most illegal immigrants, who avoid the system entirely.
(Your last paragraph deals with security issues, about which I’ve taken no position).
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### Author:  [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2003, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepting-mexican-id-cards-from-illegal-aliens/197568/11 "2003-08-26T18:07:22Z")
\*\*Izzy, \*\* I seem to recall that you live in the Chicago area; is that true? Well, so do I. And my entire professional history has been in Chicago, including my adventures with Immigration Court.
Yes, the population that made it through Immigration Court is not representative of the illegally present community at large. And yes, many employers never request the documentation required on the I-9 form which all employees are supposed to complete upon starting a new job…in spite of the potential penalties for failure to document employees’ legal status (depending on severity, up to thousands of dollars per offense). Info on the I-9 requirements and a printable form:
[http://www.immigration.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/i-9.htm](http://www.immigration.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/i-9.htm)
And many more employers accept documents that they either know or suspect to be false; to do otherwise may constitute and unfair immigration-related employment practice. See the FAQ at link:
[http://www.immigration.gov/graphics/howdoi/EEV.htm](http://www.immigration.gov/graphics/howdoi/EEV.htm)
“What happens if I properly complete a Form I-9 and the BICE discovers that my employee is not actually authorized to work?
You cannot be charged with a verification violation; however, you cannot knowingly continue to employ this individual. You will have a good faith defense against the imposition of employer sanctions penalties for knowingly hiring an unauthorized alien unless the government can prove you had actual knowledge of the unauthorized status of the employee.
What is my responsibility concerning the authenticity of document(s) presented to me?
You must examine the document(s) and, if they reasonably appear on their face to be genuine and to relate to the person presenting them, you must accept them. To do otherwise could be an unfair immigration-related employment practice. If a document does not reasonably appear on its face to be genuine and to relate to the person presenting it, you must not accept it.”
Because of hugely varying standards for commonly accepted identity documents, it’s not difficult to come up with believable fakes; from an American Immigration Lawyers’ Association backgrounder, which you can find at:
[http://www.aila.org/fileViewer.aspx?docID=9857](http://www.aila.org/fileViewer.aspx?docID=9857)
“According to the Department of Health and Human Services, there are 14,000 different versions of birth certificates in circulation.”
Combine a fake birth certificate (or one belonging to someone else, even a dead person) with a Social Security number (that of a dead person, or of a friend, or a stolen one) and/or photo ID, and all sorts of things are possible: jobs, utilities, leases, etc., none of which are necessarily traceable back to the actual individual’s identity. My co-worker who used to work for Legal Assistance with migrant workers spent a good deal of her time helping people combine Social Security records for several identities which actually belonged to one individual into a single Social Security record after they legalized (this was years ago, so legalization was subject to amnesty, or sometimes to legalization through a close family member with legal status once their place in the queue is reached). Sometimes she would have to sort out the simultaneous full-time earnings of several people who were “sharing” a SS#. It was a bureaucratic nightmare, she says.
In the interim, people find all sorts of creative ways to carry on their daily business. Desperate people will do desperate things, and buying a fake identity document is down pretty low on the scale of desperate things to do.
Wouldn’t you want to remove things which are not national security-related in the vast majority of cases, like obtaining driver’s licenses and bank accounts, from the motivations to commit fraud? I do.
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### Author:  [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2003, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepting-mexican-id-cards-from-illegal-aliens/197568/12 "2003-08-26T18:27:48Z")
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> \*Originally posted by Eva Luna \*
> I seem to recall that you live in the Chicago area; is that true? Well, so do I. And my entire professional history has been in Chicago, including my adventures with Immigration Court.
Central Jersey. Never been anywhere near Chicago in my life. (I don’t what difference this makes.)
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> Yes, the population that made it through Immigration Court is not representative of the illegally present community at large. And yes, many employers never request the documentation required on the I-9 form which all employees are supposed to complete upon starting a new job…in spite of the potential penalties for failure to document employees’ legal status (depending on severity, up to thousands of dollars per offense).
So we agree, then. I’m not sure what the significance is of the rest of your post.
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> Wouldn’t you want to remove things which are not national security-related in the vast majority of cases, like obtaining driver’s licenses and bank accounts, from the motivations to commit fraud? I do.
As I said earlier, I am concerned about making it too easy to be an illegal immigrant.
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### Author:  [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2003, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accepting-mexican-id-cards-from-illegal-aliens/197568/13 "2003-08-26T19:13:01Z")
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> \*Originally posted by IzzyR \*
> Central Jersey. Never been anywhere near Chicago in my life. (I don’t what difference this makes.)
I misremembered, then, probably because I remembered a connection; much of my family is in NJ. I was just trying to find some common ground.
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> So we agree, then. I’m not sure what the significance is of the rest of your post.
The significance is in showing a) that documentary requirements for all sorts of state and official functions are both wildly inconsistent and easily gotten around. The requirements for a Mexican _matricula consular_ are not. I’m a big fan of consistency in official interactions, especially when (as with a SS#) one “breeder” document, which is easily obtained in all sorts of fraudulent ways, can be used to obtain access to all sorts of other documents, and before you know it, boom! Instant identity. How does that help national security? Or even a more mundane criminal prosecution, for that matter?
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> As I said earlier, I am concerned about making it too easy to be an illegal immigrant. \*\*
Those who are already here by the millions have often already overcome much more significant barriers to entry, sometimes risking severe injury or death to cross the border; I really don’t think the inability to obtain a driver’s license or ATM card is going to stop them from coming or convince them to leave. Obviously, YMMV.