# Accidentally or deliberately self-referential shows **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 9, 2006, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851 "2006-10-09T23:02:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851/21 "2006-10-10T02:24:09Z")
On the last episode of _Kids in the Hall_, the final skit features the office girls of A. T. & Love. The company is being bought and and the office is closing, which they learn in a video message from the boss. At the end of the video, the boss tells the girls to turn in this and that before they leave, ending with “and your wigs.” The actors then take off the wigs and wave their final goodbyes to the audience. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851/22 "2006-10-10T02:27:00Z")
On an episode of Frasier, Fraisier’s ex-wife, a children’s entertainer, complains “do you know what it’s like playing the same role for twenty years” After 8 years of Cheers, and 11 years of his own show, yes he does. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851/23 "2006-10-10T02:29:15Z")
Dave and Maddy in _moonlighting_ were perfectly aware that they were characters in a TV show. They made frequent references about the writers, and seasons, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851/24 "2006-10-10T02:46:15Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Referencing debate over whether two holiday specials counted as episodes for the series episode count. [/QUOTE] Actually, they were referencing Fox’s bizarre decision to decide _that_ episode (Barting Over) was number 300. Barting Over wasn’t the 300th episode produced OR the 300th to hit the airwaves; it was the 302nd just like Marge said. I guess someone at Fox just decided that episode would be the easiest to promote. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851/25 "2006-10-10T03:01:53Z")
Mine are mostly animated programs, since I can’t think of any live-action ones A early _Ren & Stimpy_ short entitled “Marooned” features the duo lost in space. At one point, Ren realizes that there’s no way back and that they are marooned. To which Stimpy replies, “Just like the title of this cartoon!” In one episode of _SpongeBob Squarepants_, Squidward wonders to himself why every 11 minutes of his life have to be filled with misery and torment. The average SpongeBob short is 11 minutes long. Walt Disney Television produced an enjoyable goofy series called _Brandy and Mr. Whiskers_, about the “odd couple” relationship of a rabbit and dog stranded in the Amazon rainforest with a catchy theme song by Lou Bega- “Who’s a little like water and oil? Brandy and Mr. Whiskers…” In one episode, Brandy (as usual) gets mad at Mr. Whiskers and tells him that they can’t get along- “We’re like water and oil!” Says Mr. Whiskers: “I know. I heard the theme song.” ---
**Author:** ![Millit\_the\_Frail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Millit\_the\_Frail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millit_the_Frail)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851/26 "2006-10-10T03:02:07Z")
On _The O.C._, The characters watch a show called \*The Valley \* that closely mimics their own lives. And when _The O.C._'s ratings went down in its second season, characters started talking about how the previous year had been kind of magical and trying to regain that magic. It wasn’t entirely self-conscious, but watching the characters moan about how much better “last year” had been–right along with me and the rest of the audience–was pretty funny. Also, the writers sometimes throw in little jokes about stuff that fans didn’t like. In one episode, a much-despised character who’d been gone for over a year got a mention. The main characters were in a bad situation, and upon hearing a knock at the door, one said “the way things are going, that’s probably Oliver!” Sadly, the show never did find its magic again, but I enjoy the subtle cleverness of the show and the constant referring back to itself. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851/27 "2006-10-10T03:09:13Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] Hypothetical example of what I’m looking for: Chandler Bings is sitting reading his TV guide; on the cover, there’s a picture of David Schwimmer, or worse, a headline mentioning iFriends\*. [/QUOTE] Don’t know if you were conscious of this when you came up with this example, but IIRC there was a famous example on “I Love Lucy” where Lucy is sitting on the couch reading “Look” Magazine (or something like that) and the cover of the magazine is about…“I Love Lucy.” On “Fresh Prince of Bel Air” at one point Uncle Phil accuses Will of lying, saying that whatever Will just said is as ridiculous as claiming that Will was a famous rap star whose record just went platinum. [QUOTE=kunilou] For sustained self-reference, I’d go with the old Burns and Allen show which often featured George Burns sitting in front of his TV, making comments about that episode’s plot. [/QUOTE] For the last several years of Jack Benny’s radio program, virtually every show took place during the week, with the characters talking about what they were going to do on Sunday’s big show. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851/28 "2006-10-10T03:13:17Z")
[QUOTE=Rodgers01] On “Fresh Prince of Bel Air” at one point Uncle Phil accuses Will of lying, saying that whatever Will just said is as ridiculous as claiming that Will was a famous rap star whose record just went platinum. [/QUOTE] Although this one is referring to the main star rather than the show itself, this reminded me of a gag from “Weird Al” Yankovic’s short-lived Saturday-morning kids show: Al is in a competition with a rival host for the best’s kids show host award. Al tunes in to see his rival dressed up as him and making fun of him. Al angrily shouts, “How dare he stoop so low as to parody another person!” ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851/29 "2006-10-10T03:16:33Z")
[QUOTE=kunilou] For sustained self-reference, I’d go with the old _Burns and Allen_ show which often featured George Burns sitting in front of his TV, making comments about that episode’s plot. [/QUOTE] The same thing was done years later by Garry Shandling on “It’s Garry Shandling’s Show.” Late in the run of “Cheers” (it might’ve even been during it’s last season), Woody, Frasier, Norm, and Cliff all go to a drive-in to see a Godzilla movie marathon. At one point, Woody notices the lead actress in the later Godzilla movies is different from the one in the first films and asks Frasier why the first actress would want to leave such a successful series. Frasier sighs and (I think) says, “I don’t know why, Woody. I just don’t know.” In the last scene in the last episode of MST3K, Mike and the bots, now free from being forced to watch bad movies on the Satellite of Love, are spending their time watching the beginning to **The Crawling Eye** –the movie featured in the series’ first episode–when Tom Servo comments that something seems oddly familiar. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851/30 "2006-10-10T03:26:36Z")
The ultimate self-referential theme song: > [@It's Gary Shandling's Show](#): > > This is the theme to Garry’s Show, > The theme to Garry’s show. > Garry called me up and asked if I would write his theme song. > I’m almost halfway finished, > How do you like it so far, > How do you like the theme to Garry’s Show. > > This is the theme to Garry’s Show, > The opening theme to Garry’s show. > This is the music that you hear as you watch the credits. > We’re almost to the part of where I start to whistle. > Then we’ll watch “It’s Garry Shandling’s Show”. > > This was the theme to Garry Shandling’s show. **Rocky and Bullwinkle** often had the characters aware of being in a TV show; they would interact with the narrator all the time. And then there was this: > [@Wossamotta U](#): > > Rocky: The other team is a bunch of girls. What kind of games can we play with girls? > Bullwinkle: Boy, it’s too bad we’re a kiddie show. .. . . Parcheesi! ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851/31 "2006-10-10T03:46:23Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Dave and Maddy in _moonlighting_ were perfectly aware that they were characters in a TV show. They made frequent references about the writers, and seasons, etc. [/QUOTE] As did Agnes. DiPesto is the only character, in fact, whom I am sure DIDN’T know. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851/32 "2006-10-10T03:48:19Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] As did Agnes. DiPesto is the only character, in fact, whom I am sure DIDN’T know. [/QUOTE] And by diPesto, of course, I meant her boyfriend. Somebody Viola. Curtis Armstrong. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851/33 "2006-10-10T03:55:42Z")
At least once the > [@](#): > > Northern Exposure actors turned to the camera and made an appeal about how untenable the episode was. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851/34 "2006-10-10T03:56:14Z")
Bert, or was it Burt. What makes you think he didn’t know? There was one episode where the music breaks down, so Burt sings the theme song. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851/35 "2006-10-10T03:57:58Z")
On **Seinfeld** , Jerry and George pitch and write the show Seinfeld (essentially). ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851/36 "2006-10-10T03:59:58Z")
Herbert Quentin Viola And I’d really like those few brain cells back, if you don’t mind. There’s no reason I need to remember that. I’ll give up the lyrics to “Mickey”, as well, if I can just remember the order of taxonomic categorization instead. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851/37 "2006-10-10T12:37:17Z")
THE CRITIC, after being cancelled by ABC & picked up by Fox, refers to the fine people at Fox Network, then looks down to the right-hand corner of the screen, salutes & says “God bless you, little logo!” I’m sure that’s not the only one in THE CRITIC. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851/38 "2006-10-10T12:46:59Z")
On _the Honeymooners_ there was an episode where Ralph and Ed argued about whether Gleason or Carney was the funniest member of The Jackie Gleason show. They found a bystander to ask his opinion, who said “I wouldn’t know, I watch Perry Como.” Ed also had a crack about how fat Jackie Gleason was, prompting Ralph to reply “that Art Carney’s put on a few pounds, too.” ---
**Author:** ![Promethea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Promethea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Promethea)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851/39 "2006-10-10T12:55:04Z")
The Cylon strolling past a puzzled Dirk Benedict on the credits of The A-team was a nice hats off to his work on Battlestar Galactica. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2006, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851/40 "2006-10-10T12:56:29Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] There was the double reference in **Third Rock from the Sun** where guest star William Shatner mentions seeing a strange creature on the wing of his airplane. John Lithgow says “You too?” Lithgow was in the remake of the old **Twilight Zone** episode with Shatner and with that plot. \*\*. [/QUOTE] Lithgow’s actual line was “The same thing happened to meeeeeeee,” the last delivered in his unique high pitched voice. There’s the famous answer that Letoy Jethro Gibbs gave to the question of what Dr. Donald “Ducky” Mallard looked like when he was young: Ilya Kurakin. Bart called a FOX pledge drive and pledged a bunch of money to Rupert Murdoch, who said “You’ve saved my network.” Bart replied “It wouldn’t be the first time.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accidentally-or-deliberately-self-referential-shows/375851.md?page=3)