# According to anti-union propaganda, I make $76,000 a year! **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 3, 2003, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789 "2003-08-03T23:20:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2003, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789/1 "2003-08-03T23:20:53Z")
Many of you in the mid-atlantic & Northeast part of the country may have seen this Verizon commercial on television in the past week or two. Somebody told me he saw an ad in NewEngland that said we make $80K! Clearly they wouldn’t say this on national television unless it were true, so how do they come up with this figure? I’m at the top rung of the contract pay scale, and as I look at my paycheck, they’re still about $18,500 too high. I don’t pay for my health & dental, but I know that can’t amount to an extra eighteen grand. Something tells me they’ve added up every cent that an employee has ever taken in tuition assistance, adoption assistance, and all of the other assistances that (probably) only a very small number of us actually take advantage of. Still, I have a hard time imagining that when this amount of money is spread thin over all 80 thousand employees, it adds up to an extra 18.5 grand per year for each. If this turns out to be valid, isn’t it a dirty thing to do? Would I be justified in saying the same thing on my salary history if I go looking for a job elsewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Cillasi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@Cillasi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cillasi)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2003, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789/2 "2003-08-03T23:31:19Z")
The 80K figure most likely includes all employee benefits such as insurances (medical, dental, life), vacation pay (although included in your salary, it is a day the company goes without your actually working, so is probably somehow included in that figure), sick pay and other perks. Also, I would not doubt that certain areas of the country are on a higher payscale than others. The figure is probably an average over the region. The Northeast generally has a higher pay rate than the mid-atlantic region. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789/3 "2003-08-03T23:42:44Z")
One of the more common ways of figuring that is to include the employer’s share of FICA taxes, on the theory that if you were self-employed you’d be paying it yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2003, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789/4 "2003-08-03T23:48:52Z")
Also, pension funding and/or 401K matching is added in, as are payroll taxes and unemployment insurance premiums. The costs to the company of employing you are quite substantially higher that what you “make”. Health and dental insurance could easily come to $5000/yr, more if it is family coverage. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2003, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789/5 "2003-08-04T01:36:39Z")
This sounds suspiciously like the “Comparable Compensation” sheet the Nav used to pass around just before reenlistment time. It was generally considered a joke, as it took into account a lot of things that were almost never used, or that would have been provided by any _other_ employer in more cost-efficient ways, skewing the facts almost beyond recognition. ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789/6 "2003-08-04T01:47:36Z")
Come on - this is propaganda. They are trying to justify their position and put themselves in the best possible light. What, you want truth in a political campaign? Send a letter to your paper (or any other paper) telling your version of the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2003, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789/7 "2003-08-04T01:53:02Z")
> [@](#): > > What, you want truth in a political campaign? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2003, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789/8 "2003-08-04T02:21:07Z")
Well, want in one had and shit in the other - let me know which one fills up first. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Tonya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/4491bb/32.png) [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2003, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789/9 "2003-08-04T02:31:46Z")
I work for Ford, we get a similar listing of our compensation package yearly, **Tranquilis**. I’m not in the Navy, but it sounds really similar. For example, retirement benefits are included…um, I’m not retired? So, they’re including what they pay out to retirees as part of my total compensation, yeah ok. ---
**Author:** ![Beryl\_Mooncalf\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9f8e36/32.png) [@Beryl\_Mooncalf\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beryl_Mooncalf_1)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2003, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789/10 "2003-08-04T02:39:15Z")
Kunilou is correct in the point that the employer pays more than you think for your services. I’m self employeed, and, beside normal taxes I am forced to pay a 15.7% SET (self employment tax). That represents the half you paf for Social Security, and the half your employer pays, plus the medicare fees. Medical Insurance for a Family of three (three is where they cut it, 4, 5 ,whatever after that is no more than the 3) is around $550 - $600.00 a month depending on the coverage. (unless you are 21 years old, which, I’m not (I can’t even pass for it). So, figure 60K x 7.5% = 4500 + 600 X 12 = 7200 = 11700. Add any retirement contributions, and vacation time, sick time, etc. and I’ll bet you do earn (your employer pays) $80,000/Year. The only problem is that we never see any where near what we “earn”. Good luck on your negotiations. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2003, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789/11 "2003-08-04T03:28:00Z")
If it makes you feel any better **Attrayant** I figured that commercial for BS the first time I heard it on the radio…and yes, up here the figure they used was more like $79,000 IIRC. My assumption was that the figure quoted only applied to a certain subset of Verizon employees (like a particular job classification) but I read in the Boston Globe I think that Verizon also admitted they were including every possible benefit in that figure. ---
**Author:** ![Mandarax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Mandarax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandarax)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2003, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789/12 "2003-08-04T05:29:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Queen Tonya \* > \*\*For example, retirement benefits are included…um, I’m not retired? So, they’re including what they pay out to retirees as part of my total compensation, yeah ok. \*\* Your employer almost certainly makes contributions to a pension fund on your behalf every year that you work. Once you reach retirement, the pension should be fully funded, so the payout to retirees is _not_ an expense to the company. As **Beryl\_Mooncalf** and **kunilou** point out, your total compensation is significantly higher than your base salary, assuming you’re working for a benefit-providing employer like Verizon or Ford. It’s possible that the commercial is trying to capitalize on the fact that most people will hear “compensation” and think “salary”, but the figures are probably legitimate. And to answer the final question in the OP, I would guess that “salary history” means just salary, not salary plus value of benefits, to most people. ---
**Author:** ![Flymaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789/13 "2003-08-04T05:41:41Z")
To be fair, I also have firsthand knowledge of the Verizon pay situation, and I would assume that they’re including OT in the totals, and a significant portion of the Verizon union workforce certainly does make a LOT of OT pay. The two union techs who I know of at Verizon make over 100k a year (one a CO tech, one a union computer support worker in Boston), but both of those totals are with HUGE amounts of OT. Regular pay, no, they wouldn’t break the 79k claimed, but they definetly top it when you include all monies recieved for services. That said, as I am personally affected by the situation, I come down strongly on the Union side of the issue, so I don’t want to sound like a corporate shill here. I know for a fact that the union employees (the vast majority, anyway) earn every penny, much more than certain CEOs did with their $54 million in stock options. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2003, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789/14 "2003-08-04T09:37:21Z")
Just curious. How much are your non-union contemporaries making assuming they can even get a job? I mean, how much _are_ temp agencies paying these days? How _are_ the benefits? ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2003, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789/15 "2003-08-04T10:31:22Z")
**levdrakon** , you’re referring to **Attrayant** ’s contemporaries, right? Otherwise there’s a lot to be said… ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2003, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789/16 "2003-08-04T10:52:13Z")
> [@](#): > > If this turns out to be valid, isn’t it a dirty thing to do? Would I be justified in saying the same thing on my salary history if I go looking for a job elsewhere? Nope, salary history is salary. But I don’t think it’s necessarily a dirty thing for them to do. I have a job with health insurance, a relatively large amount of vacation time, other benefits and a pension. If I were looking for another job , I would not be interested in leaving this job for another one that paid the same salary and didn’t provide those benefits. A job without benefits would have to pay significantly more before I would consider it. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2003, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789/17 "2003-08-04T14:52:58Z")
Well, in and of itself, no, stating the potential amount of compensation a company employee _could_ make, under certain circumstances, isn’t dirty pool. But what’s the situation right now? Union members are (or were, until Saturday) looking to strike over a number of issues. Verizon’s response? “Look how much our employees make [sub]_cough_includingallstandardandoptionalbenefits_cough_[/sub]! We treat them quite well, and yet they’re still talking strikes? They’re just being greedy.” It’s a standard corporate tactic. Trot out the impressive figures and hope nobody actually thinks the argument through so as to weaken union support both within the ranks and in public opinion. _That_’s dirty pool. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2003, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789/18 "2003-08-04T19:33:59Z")
I haven’t seen the commercial in question. Based on **Olentzero** ’s post, I infer it’s strike-related, but can someone please give this Pacific Northwesterner the full story on the political issue being propagandized? ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789/19 "2003-08-04T19:40:49Z")
Contract negotiations between CWA - the Communications Workers of America - and Verizon. A couple of the contested items are language concerning layoffs and an increase in co-pays for health benefits. ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789/20 "2003-08-04T22:15:49Z")
union good - management bad (works vast majority of the time) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-anti-union-propaganda-i-make-76-000-a-year/192789.md?page=2)