# According to Sen. James Inhofe, soldiers are unwilling to fight and die for gay soldiers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 14, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-sen-james-inhofe-soldiers-are-unwilling-to-fight-and-die-for-gay-soldiers/539449 "2010-05-14T17:13:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-sen-james-inhofe-soldiers-are-unwilling-to-fight-and-die-for-gay-soldiers/539449/61 "2010-05-16T22:04:56Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I think you’re thinking of the Golden Band of Thebes. The Immortals weren’t known for their homoeroticism. [But many samurai were.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shudo#Military_same-sex_love) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-sen-james-inhofe-soldiers-are-unwilling-to-fight-and-die-for-gay-soldiers/539449/62 "2010-05-16T22:12:08Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I think you’re thinking of the Golden Band of Thebes. The Immortals weren’t known for their homoeroticism. [Au Contraire!](http://img.youtube.com/vi/q-pBLPju7EQ/0.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-sen-james-inhofe-soldiers-are-unwilling-to-fight-and-die-for-gay-soldiers/539449/63 "2010-05-16T22:33:32Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [But many samurai were.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shudo#Military_same-sex_love) Yes, but there weren’t many samurai in the Persian army either. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-sen-james-inhofe-soldiers-are-unwilling-to-fight-and-die-for-gay-soldiers/539449/64 "2010-05-17T00:40:22Z")
You needn’t go ancient or leave America to find an out gay soldier of significance. One of the best thing that happened to Washington’s army was “Baron” Friedrich von Steuben. He taught the troops to use bayonets, to arrange the camp more hygienically (this may sound almost frivolous, but it wasn’t- the camp arrangement was responsible for many deaths due to polluted water and disease transmission and sewage), Prussian discipline, faster reloading techniques, and many other things that were compiled into a textbook that was still used at West Point a century later. Von Steuben (who was neither a baron nor a general in Europe though he was introduced as both to Washington) had had left the Prussian army and then Europe due to disgrace over homosexual affairs. When he died in New York a few years after the Constitution was signed he left most of his estate to his companion General Benjamin Walker. How gay was von Steuben, you ask? Judge for yourself- [here’s his monument](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Jaegers-vonsteuben-washdc.jpg) in the park across from the White House. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-sen-james-inhofe-soldiers-are-unwilling-to-fight-and-die-for-gay-soldiers/539449/65 "2010-05-17T00:49:11Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Manned a c-beam near the Tannhäuser Gate, don’tcha know. He’s seen things _those_ people wouldn’t believe. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-sen-james-inhofe-soldiers-are-unwilling-to-fight-and-die-for-gay-soldiers/539449/66 "2010-05-17T01:26:52Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > How gay was von Steuben, you ask? Judge for yourself- [here’s his monument](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Jaegers-vonsteuben-washdc.jpg) in the park across from the White House. Yeah, 300 has nothing on that in the homoeroticism department. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-sen-james-inhofe-soldiers-are-unwilling-to-fight-and-die-for-gay-soldiers/539449/67 "2010-05-17T02:42:01Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > But I’ll point out that not every Pit thread is a strategy session. Sometimes a rant is just a rant. Sure. But when you rant in the Pit, you invite comments. Otherwise, post your rant to your Facey-spacey page and turn off comments. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-sen-james-inhofe-soldiers-are-unwilling-to-fight-and-die-for-gay-soldiers/539449/68 "2010-05-17T02:49:33Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > I don’t think he was right, even 50, 60, or 70 years ago. > > Two of my uncles who served in WWII (one in Europe, one in the Pacific) have both said that there were soldiers in their unit who were ‘like that’ and everybody knew it, but it didn’t cause any problems. They were far too busy fighting the enemy to worry about stuff like that. “Only desk-jockey officers safe behind the lines had time to be concerned about crap like that.” And I, too, have two uncles that served in WWII, one in Europe and one in the Pacific. The one in Europe did not come home, so I never met him; he died in a tank outside the German village of Themar on April 7, 1945, fifteen-ish years before I was born. The other one did make it home, suffering no wound other than an attack of a coconut crab on some South Pacific island, although he heard bullets pass by close enough to give him a strong interest in sand more than once. And he was, at least later in life, an ardent opponent of the introduction of gays into the military, writing more than one letter to then-President Clinton urging his opposition to the DADT policy. But…plural of anecdote is not data, right? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-sen-james-inhofe-soldiers-are-unwilling-to-fight-and-die-for-gay-soldiers/539449/69 "2010-05-17T14:36:26Z")
There are no homosexuals in foxholes! ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-sen-james-inhofe-soldiers-are-unwilling-to-fight-and-die-for-gay-soldiers/539449/70 "2010-05-17T15:30:12Z")
But there are male foxes in self denial who go into foxholes. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-sen-james-inhofe-soldiers-are-unwilling-to-fight-and-die-for-gay-soldiers/539449/71 "2010-05-17T17:01:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And I, too, have two uncles that served in WWII, one in Europe and one in the Pacific. The one in Europe did not come home, so I never met him; he died in a tank outside the German village of Themar on April 7, 1945, fifteen-ish years before I was born. > > The other one did make it home, suffering no wound other than an attack of a coconut crab on some South Pacific island, although he heard bullets pass by close enough to give him a strong interest in sand more than once. And he was, at least later in life, an ardent opponent of the introduction of gays into the military, writing more than one letter to then-President Clinton urging his opposition to the DADT policy. > > But…plural of anecdote is not data, right? That is correct. And if your uncle is still with us, please extend to him my thanks for his service. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-sen-james-inhofe-soldiers-are-unwilling-to-fight-and-die-for-gay-soldiers/539449/72 "2010-05-17T17:45:34Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > That is correct. > > And if your uncle is still with us, please extend to him my thanks for his service. Sadly, he passed away about fifteen years ago. But - thanks much for the thought. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-sen-james-inhofe-soldiers-are-unwilling-to-fight-and-die-for-gay-soldiers/539449/73 "2010-05-17T17:46:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And I, too, have two uncles that served in WWII, one in Europe and one in the Pacific. The one in Europe did not come home, so I never met him; he died in a tank outside the German village of Themar on April 7, 1945, fifteen-ish years before I was born. > > The other one did make it home, suffering no wound other than an attack of a coconut crab on some South Pacific island, although he heard bullets pass by close enough to give him a strong interest in sand more than once. And he was, at least later in life, an ardent opponent of the introduction of gays into the military, writing more than one letter to then-President Clinton urging his opposition to the DADT policy. > > But…plural of anecdote is not data, right? So, on one hand, we have **t-bonham** ’s two uncles, who say soldiers fifty years ago didn’t really have a big problem with gays. On the other hand, we have the Senator and your uncle, as evidence that soldiers fifty years ago _did_ have a problem with gays. Give an equal number of datapoints on either side of the debate, it’s clear that the only conclusion one can come to is… _Of course_ soldiers fifty years ago would have had a problem with serving with gays! The idea that any random cross section of the American public in _nineteen hundred and forty-fucking-five_ would have had a generally tolerant attitude towards open homosexuals in _any_ capacity is absurd on its face. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-sen-james-inhofe-soldiers-are-unwilling-to-fight-and-die-for-gay-soldiers/539449/74 "2010-05-18T18:01:55Z")
Gay is no big deal now days, the shock effect, if ever there really was one wore off years ago. Soldiers in action are just soldiers and couldn’t care less if a bloke knits lampshades in his spare time let alone his sexuality. A persons life depends on his squad mates, literally, so you aren’t going to piss off any if you can help it. Because they might be the one that saves your life. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-sen-james-inhofe-soldiers-are-unwilling-to-fight-and-die-for-gay-soldiers/539449/75 "2010-05-18T21:24:53Z")
I think it’s common knowledge that many people who **are not homosexually inclined** will still resort to homosexuality, if they are stuck for long periods in single-sex environments with little or no access to the opposite sex – boarding schools, prisons, monasteries/convents, labor camps, ships at sea – and armies in the field. Any place where you might get horny, and tired of your own hand. I suspect that’s what the brass is really worried about – that sort of thing happening, and being bad for discipline and [_snicker_] unit cohesion – and that is why the UCMJ has always defined gay sex as a crime, and why it **remains** one; as I understand it, DADT applies only to orientation, not to one’s actual sexual behavior while in uniform. Sure, it still happens, but it’s (arguably) not quite so bad for discipline if it’s all strictly on the downlow. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-sen-james-inhofe-soldiers-are-unwilling-to-fight-and-die-for-gay-soldiers/539449/76 "2010-05-18T22:23:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > \and that is why the UCMJ has always defined gay sex as a crime Not **always** – only since 1942. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-sen-james-inhofe-soldiers-are-unwilling-to-fight-and-die-for-gay-soldiers/539449/77 "2010-05-19T05:07:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The other one did make it home, suffering no wound other than an attack of a coconut crab on some South Pacific island, Holy crap! Have you seen those fuckers? That’s no laughing matter! In all seriousness\*, **Bricker** , your uncle sounds like a stand up guy. \*Except I am totally serious about the coconut crabs. Those things are really scary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/according-to-sen-james-inhofe-soldiers-are-unwilling-to-fight-and-die-for-gay-soldiers/539449.md?page=3)