@Velocity As a former Christian who is now a die-hard atheist, I have to say that I’m very glad that there is no god to tell me that he and his fat ass should be what gives meaning to my life. I don’t get this argument some religious people use that atheists must not have any meaning in their lives. When I was religious, religion actually took away meaning from my life, because it taught things I found morally repugnant and because I wasn’t interested in the rewards it offered. I quite resent the idea that I need some sky daddy or any other higher authority to suck up to and give my life meaning.
Thing to me seems to be that with that strong belief many seem to reach that conclusion, and without that belief many of us find meanings far beyond those goals. I see no different in the distribution myself. Good people doing good things either a strong God belief (of that sort) and hard atheists doing the same good things. Assholes with both too.
We all create our meaning, God watching and caring, no God that gives a shit anyway, whatever we believe
haha lol i love that movie!
I feel this is on topic, but theres a few perspectives that I think tie in:
Post theism: the philosophy that humanity has evolved so much culturally that we don’t need religion, the same way we moved away from bronze tools when we learned to forge iron. Whatever social/political/health/psychological purposes religion served in the past, we don’t need it for that anymore since we have better tools now.
Apatheism: the philosophy that even if there is some kind of deity, that it has no impact on how we live our lives so its as irrelevant to our lives as the atmosphere on a lifeless planet on the other side of the universe is
I consider myself more post theist. But either way you can look at the question about the meaning of life through a religious lens and come to the conclusion that deities are irrelevant to our lives, or religious concepts were something primitive cultures engaged into to give themselves a sense of illusion and control in a dangerous, pre-industrial world.
I’m with Hobbes (the tiger, not Thomas): 'Well, there’s seafood." (IOW: pretty OK with just enjoying the moment.)
Fun fact. Starting about ~1 million years ago, our ancestors had evolved enough brain power that we could build weapons, communicate and plan. One thing we did with these abilities is we’d find the asshole, dark triad, alpha males who abused everyone and then gang up on them and kill them. Either stab them to death in their sleep, pound them with rocks, push them off cliffs in ‘hunting accidents’, etc. In some other primate species like gorillas the biggest and meanest one ends up doing much of the mating.
Over the generations our ancestors somewhat bred out these hyper aggressive traits. Its one reason homo sapiens out competed other homo genus species. The other species of hominids were too aggressive to tolerate strangers, but because our ancestors spent endless generations killing off the assholes, we became a more tame, social and friendly species compared to a lot of other animals. Larger and more cooperative groups had advantages over smaller groups that were too aggressive to be socially cohesive and tolerate strangers.
Violence wins again. Humans generally crave peace and love deep inside in part because we killed off many of the assholes and removed a lot of them from the gene pool. Leaving behind the friendlier, more pro-social hominids to procreate and build tribes.
Actually, I’m in total agreement with this! If God made sure we all knew he existed and what he wanted from us, maybe the same freedom we have now to say No to the whole idea of God would still technically exist, but it would be hollow.
And people would choose to follow God for all the wrong reasons (not that they don’t anyway), like if God is unavoidably the Big Guy, then you want to show him you’re on his side, and far too many people would assume that sucking up to him was the right way to express that. Which IME at least, it most certainly isn’t. You should let God into your life because his love is so amazing that you wouldn’t want to be without it. But if you haven’t experienced that, if (like you) you don’t even believe he exists, then you have the freedom to try to find your own way. And I want that for you, and everyone. Christianity, to modify a line from my namesake, shouldn’t be a club you join to hit people over the head with. Unfortunately, too many persons identifying as Christian do exactly that.
Third option. The pro-social behaviors and thought process were already there before religion ever existed. Altruism never required religion to evolve and to sustain, even if the eye in the sky became a tool to further reduce cheaters. It is a post facto creation of our selves seeing pattern in noise, creating meaning out of chaos.
People always could be and always will be capable of being mensches and asssholes using religion to justify either, or not.
Note: on consideration that is not inconsistent with apatheism, so maybe not really a separate option.
Since we die, then go the Heaven or Hell, the meaning would be to tell others they can be born again through Jesus’s sacrificial death.
He has made it clear He exists through things that are too absurd to be coincedences.
Just my 2 cents.
I presume you’re referring to the platypus.
Sorry, i meant many things have happened to me that couldnt be coincidences.
But I like your comment better.
I think eternal life is expressed through epigenetics. Even if we don’t reproduce, we often have some influence over those who do. I think that influence lives on in future generations as a part of us.
Sorry - but there is no evidence for this ‘fact’.
Surely few other animals have endless bloody conflicts over religion, economics, racial hatred and power than we humans do?
I was watching a conversation between Bill Maher and Charlie Kirk on the existence of God and the afterlife (presumably recorded before Kirk definitively answered the question). This particular clip had some evangelist giving a voiceover using “reason and logic” to explain why Bill was wrong.
I also have a long-time friend who is being treated for brain cancer. His wife and many of their friends are very religious so their social media feed has a lot of “sending you prayers” and whatnot,
The problem with these debates is that they aren’t based on any sort of reason or logic. Bill Maher takes the quite reasonable position of “we don’t know”. Religious people take the position of “this is what I believe” and their “evidence” is usually some variation of “I don’t / we can’t understand how this works so…God”.
The point is I think some people desperately need to believe there is some higher purpose or God to give meaning to suffering and horrible things happening.
Whether or not there is a God or some master plan, it’s largely unknowable to us, therefore meaningless, other than perhaps serving as a framework for finding our own meaning in life. That said, I don’t think the lack of a God or master pan justifies a nihilistic or overly hedonistic approach to life where you just focus on your own pleasures and entertainments,
My theory is that the “meaning of life” such as there actually IS one is simply to live it by experiencing as much as you can and focusing on things that give you meaning. There’s no right answer or correct plan where if you follow it you will lead a happy and successful life.
If there is a successful master plan (in any situation), it should be obvious by its effects.
For example, if there’s some accidental disaster, you can see the organised efforts to help the victims and clear things up.
After centuries of belief in various Gods, there’s no sign of any ‘master plan’ …
It’s a magazine, you dopes.
Life may not have a meaning but, like a coffee cup, it may have a basic purpose. But I might want to to make a slight change to this response-To consciously want to leave things better than they were. To rejoice instead of complain when your kids have it better than you did because you fought to make it that way. Basically, to give others a clear reason continue on and do the same.
So — like a coffee cup — is it okay if I instead use it for some other purpose?