# Accusations that legal same-sex marriage must lead to polygamy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2006, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308 "2006-10-29T04:56:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308/21 "2006-10-29T18:06:58Z")
[QUOTE=ITR champion] Same sex marriage is a stabilizing force in society because it helps foster long-term relationships, encourages fidleity, discourages promiscuity. Polygamy is a destabilizing force. If legalized it would tip more power to powerful, wealthy males capable of maintaining many wives. Thus there’d be a shortage a women in the dating pool, and consequently an underclass of poor males with little hope of marrying–never a good thing. [/QUOTE] This requires an assumption that only men seek out multiple partners. I’m pretty sure my boyfriend would be puzzled by that one. That being said: the legal issues surrounding multiple marriage are complicated, and would take a lot of figuring to work out. A friend of mine suggested that it would be better handled by common law than by statutory law, and I would not be surprised if he were correct, but that is extremely unlikely to happen. > [@levdrakon](#): > > Actually, SSM might lead to a healthier form of polygamy if we required all parties to the marriage to marry each other, and take vows affirming their mutual and equal love for each other participant in the marriage. That is a form of polygamy that I will never participate in – speaking here as someone who has always been interested in multiple marriage – because it would require that I lie. I am _not_ married to either of my partners other partners, and I never will be; that is not our relationship. Legal and social acceptance for my family relationships is not worth pretending to be married to someone who is not my partner – I’m not interested in living a lie or swearing to it in legal documents. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308/22 "2006-10-29T18:13:00Z")
[QUOTE=Lilairen] This requires an assumption that only men seek out multiple partners. [/QUOTE] Actually it only requires that significantly more men than women have multiple partners. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308/23 "2006-10-29T18:26:00Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] So – it all depends on how you get there. [/QUOTE] I’m sympathetic to your point. In your estimation though, shouldn’t people who feel that way then be pushing for legislative recognition in order to jump the gun on bad court rulings instead of working for, giving money to, and supporting those that want to legislatively ban any sort of gay union? ---
**Author:** ![50million](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/9fc348/32.png) [@50million](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/50million)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308/24 "2006-10-29T19:11:56Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] IMHO marriage as far as the state is concerned has nothing to do with love, but has to do with 2 (or more) people creating a combined legal entity of sorts. This is allowed because the state has a vested interest in this type of union with one of the most important interests is the creation of future tax payers. Now this for the most part does not exist in SSM but does exist in poly marriages, so I can see more reason for state supported poly marriages then SSM. [/QUOTE] Can you please tell me what marriage has to do with procreation? If we outlawed all marriages right…now, would people stop having children? Did cavemen and women not have children because there was no government employee around to issue them a marriage certificate? Are childless marriages not marriages in your eyes, or the eyes of the government? ---
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308/25 "2006-10-29T19:58:38Z")
[QUOTE=ITR champion] Actually it only requires that significantly more men than women have multiple partners. [/QUOTE] I personally know more women than men who are strongly polyamorous by preference; if I expand to people I just know _of_, it’s about even. Of the multiple marriage subset, I know more triads with two men and a woman than two women and a man, one all-female triad, a number of extended webs which work out to more or less even (though one goes M-M-F-M, if I’m remembering correctly), and otherwise have seen no evidence that there is any particular bias. Mind, my social circles don’t include any of the sort of people whose romantic escapades get published in the supermarket tabloids, so I can’t speak to the habits of those ‘powerful, wealthy males’ you were concerned with. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308/26 "2006-10-29T20:25:38Z")
[QUOTE=Lilairen] That is a form of polygamy that I will never participate in – speaking here as someone who has always been interested in multiple marriage – because it would require that I lie. I am _not_ married to either of my partners other partners, and I never will be; that is not our relationship. Legal and social acceptance for my family relationships is not worth pretending to be married to someone who is not my partner – I’m not interested in living a lie or swearing to it in legal documents. [/QUOTE] You wouldn’t be required to lie. You’d be required to enter into a relationship where all parties are equal. If that’s not okay with you, you’re free to not enter into that relationship. If you feel the need to lie in order to get yourself multiple spouses than that’s the sort of polygamy I wouldn’t condone. If all you want it an open relationship, you can have that now. ---
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308/27 "2006-10-29T21:05:33Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] You wouldn’t be required to lie. You’d be required to enter into a relationship where all parties are equal. If that’s not okay with you, you’re free to not enter into that relationship. If you feel the need to lie in order to get yourself multiple spouses than that’s the sort of polygamy I wouldn’t condone. If all you want it an open relationship, you can have that now. [/QUOTE] I have two partners. My partners have other partners _who are not my partners_. I am not going to claim that I am married to them, because that would be a lie. I am not interested in claiming to be married to them, because that would be a perversion of marriage for the sake of benefits, and thus degrading to something I value quite highly. All parties can be equal without all relationships being marriages. ---
**Author:** ![FisherQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@FisherQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FisherQueen)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308/28 "2006-10-29T21:16:39Z")
When this argument comes up, it amuses me to ask why legal polygamous marriage would be a problem. After all, unlike gay marriage, polygamous marriage is clearly encouraged by the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308/29 "2006-10-29T21:29:46Z")
[QUOTE=ITR champion] Same sex marriage is a stabilizing force in society because it helps foster long-term relationships, encourages fidleity, discourages promiscuity. Polygamy is a destabilizing force. If legalized it would tip more power to powerful, wealthy males capable of maintaining many wives. Thus there’d be a shortage a women in the dating pool, and consequently an underclass of poor males with little hope of marrying–never a good thing. [/QUOTE] Not me, I would prefer to have 2 husbands, if we were to go poly. Back when I was young, single and a lot crazier I lived with 2 guys at once, and it worked out just fine. Only reason we all broke it off was I got a job in another state and had to move. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308/30 "2006-10-29T21:44:12Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] It seems to me you could say OSM is just as likely to lead to polygamy as SSM. What’s the difference? Once you let someone marry one person you just know they’re then going to want to marry two, then three, etc. [/QUOTE] By that reasoning, really you would have to say that the path to polygamy began when marriage became something that people do out of love, instead of as a social duty. If the basis of marriage is to fulfill a (common generally accepted) social role, than yes legalising SSM would be a path to legalised polygamy. But if we define the “goals” of marriage as some mix of any or all of the following three items: - As a show of mutual love - To commit to staying with each other - To create a family Then nothing about OSM, SSM, nor Polygamy particularly conflicts with this. And since, I think, most would agree that the above are the primary intentions that people have who enter into a marriage in modern times, the switch to the path to legalised polygamy began when the above became the goals of marriage. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308/31 "2006-10-29T21:51:13Z")
[QUOTE=ITR champion] I know no male equivalent of Anna Nicole Smith. [/quote] How about Kevin Federline? > [@Bricker](#): > > it’s critical in the debate to uncover how - by what method - SSM becomes legal. It’s critical to understand _why_. With that understanding in place, the procedural details follow, and are of little general interest. But they’re at no time the fundamental point of the discussion (and why do I feel we’ve gone over that with you before?) SSM becomes legal when it is understood that there is no valid state interest in denying equal protection under the law to gay couples. That isn’t quite so obvious in a setup that has been used as a tool of coercion in a significant number of instances where it’s even been tried, though. ---
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308/32 "2006-10-29T22:09:13Z")
[QUOTE=FisherQueen] When this argument comes up, it amuses me to ask why legal polygamous marriage would be a problem. After all, unlike gay marriage, polygamous marriage is clearly encouraged by the Bible. [/QUOTE] _Polygynous_, yes; not gender-neutral multiple marriage. But that gets into a whole bunch of problems with sexism, with the problems of basing law on someone else’s religious text, and other things. So while there is precedent for multiple marriage in that form, it’s not necessarily _good_ precedent as a model of marriage that is not rooted in a system that many people find objectionable. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308/33 "2006-10-29T22:47:15Z")
[QUOTE=essell] That kinda strikes me as an almost sexist arguement, you seem to be implying that rich powerful males would ‘capture’ all these females who would be powerless to resist? [/QUOTE] Who says they would resist ? 2 person monogamy is mostly for the male’s benefit, not the female’s; a great many women would prefer part of a rich man over all of a poor man. Yes, I know that not all women put a man’s wealth above all else, but a great many do. Most, IMHO, although I’m not aware of any studies about it one way or another. As for me, I’m rather of two minds on polygamy. On the one hand, I’m worried that it would return us to the days of rich men with a thousand wives, and poor men with none. On the other hand, I believe strongly in a person’s right to order his or her life as they see fit. I suppose I lean towards legalization, but I’m not at all sure I’d like what would happen. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2006, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308/34 "2006-10-29T23:24:39Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] How about Kevin Federline? [/QUOTE] And [Peter Holm](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Holm). And Larry Fortensky (Liz Taylor’s blue-collar catch of the 90s). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308/35 "2006-10-30T00:21:52Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] And [Peter Holm](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Holm). And Larry Fortensky (Liz Taylor’s blue-collar catch of the 90s). [/QUOTE] Mark Harris, who at 42 married Martha Raye, 75. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308/36 "2006-10-30T00:32:53Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Martha Raye [/QUOTE] Denture-wearer. Sorry, I’ve got old TV commercials stuck in my brain today… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![diggleblop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@diggleblop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggleblop)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308/37 "2006-10-30T00:56:41Z")
If same sex adults can get married, why not two consenting family members? Why not polygamists? Consenting adults are consenting adults. To be honest, I think marriage should be banned for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308/38 "2006-10-30T01:12:20Z")
[QUOTE=ITR champion] I fancy myself a realist. I’ve seen more instances of women marrying ultra-wealthy men than vice versa; I know no male equivalent of Anna Nicole Smith. Currently a wealthy man is limited to one trophy wife at a time. With legal polygamy there’d be no limit. I certainly don’t think there’d be a shortage of women willing to join a union of that sort. [/QUOTE] Poly not being legal hasn’t stopped Hugh Hefner from collecting more than one trophy “wife”. I somehow doubt it’s the legality of poly marriages that’s keeping the wealthy from collecting all the hot chicks. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308/39 "2006-10-30T16:38:19Z")
[QUOTE=Fiveyearlurker] Here’s the analogy I use: We’ve outlawed heroin, and yet table salt is still readily available. Why? I mean, both are chemicals, right? How are we to decide that one chemical is legal and the other illegal. The answer is that somewhere in between table salt and heroin is a line that we have drawn to determine this. Somewhere in between gay marriage and polygamy is a line. Gay marriage should be on one side (table salt) with polygamy on the other (heroin). [/QUOTE] You seem to arbitrarily draw the line where it is convenient for you. At least polygamous marriage has a historical precedent, gay marriage does not. I don’t see how you can support gay marriage without supporting polygamy on any principled basis. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308/40 "2006-10-30T16:39:53Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] Also, I don’t see being poly as an “orientation” the way being gay or straight or bi is. I suppose there may be some bisexuals who won’t feel fullfilled unless they’re screwing members of both sexes, but I don’t see having to “choose a team” being as big a burden as not being able to legally marry at all. Also I think changing the laws to accomodate polygamy might be a little more difficult than changing the laws to accomodate gays. [/QUOTE] As a hetero male, I can attest that several of my fellow hetero males feel a deep and primal urge to mate with more than one female. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusations-that-legal-same-sex-marriage-must-lead-to-polygamy/378308.md?page=3)