# Accused of theft at the grocery! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 3, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476 "2005-08-03T21:06:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2005, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476/81 "2005-08-05T14:09:43Z")
> [@Dung Beetle](#): > > Or, they had coupons to give out which were usable for any of their products, so they put them on some boxes of their products, the specific boxes not being important since the coupons were good for all. Ok, but then. . .you need to explain why they were only on one specific product. I _can_ see a valid reason why the coupons might only be on one product. For example, they’re packaged in different places and they only had the coupons shipped to one plant. But, just because I can come up with a valid reason for it doesn’t mean that justifies the action. Because, as I said before, if your reason is wrong, you’re back to the case where you’re stealing. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2005, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476/82 "2005-08-05T14:14:51Z")
The coupon may have mentioned other Boca products just for simplicity when it comes time to stick these coupons on the products. They have one sticker that covers several products so they don’t have to make 16 coupons or one for each product. Their _intention_ was clearly to have the coupon used for that particular item, if not, then they would have put them on _all_ the items listed on the coupon, but since they didn’t I can only assume that their intention was to have it used on that box. I would side with the intentions of the poeple that placed the coupons on certain items over your intention to use them more liberaly. So, stealing it is. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2005, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476/83 "2005-08-05T14:24:31Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > Ok, but then. . .you need to explain why they were only on one specific product. Maybe at first they were on all the products. People bought some of the products with the coupons and the case was restocked. The new stock doesn’t have coupons on it. How do you know that’s not what happened? > [@](#): > > Because, as I said before, if your reason is wrong, you’re back to the case where you’re stealing. You keep on using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476/84 "2005-08-05T14:38:33Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Maybe at first they were on all the products. People bought some of the products with the coupons and the case was restocked. The new stock doesn’t have coupons on it. How do you know that’s not what happened? You don’t. How do I know that that guy who just dropped his wallet in front of me didn’t intend for me to have it? You can justify a lot of things that are wrong. Until I see a sign that says “the coupons on Box A can be removed and used for Boxes B & C”, I’m not taking it. > [@](#): > > You keep on using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Well, the difference is that my definition of “stealing” doesn’t include your “rationalization clause”. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476/85 "2005-08-05T14:38:44Z")
One, I don’t think Boca intends you to only use that coupon with that specific product. If they did, the coupon itself would have restriction listed on it. Two, I’m also extrapolating from what the fine print says on other manufacturer’s coupons. I found the wine one I spoke of earlier. It’s actually a rebate from Gallo of Sonoma. It was stuck on wine bottle–I was incorrect; it was not over the neck, but rather stuck on in the same manner I would suppose this Boca product does it. It specifically reads: “Save $4.00 when you purchase Beef. Gallo Family’s Gallo of Sonoma.” On the reverse: “Purchase Requirements: Must purchase beef. Purchase of Gallo of Sonoma NOT required.” (emphasis in original). Granted, I’m extrapolating, and I have no idea what Boca’s policies are, but, frankly, I don’t think they give two shits and, secondly, some manufacturers are basically encouraging it. I don’t think there is anything implicit in a coupon that says you must purchase the product it is attached to. If there were, the coupon should spell out those requirements. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476/86 "2005-08-05T16:32:37Z")
There seems to be some confusion about the coupon being **on** product A, but not being **exclusively for** product A. The coupon is **on** product A because they want to stimulate sales of product A. By adding a coupon to the box, they increase its value. By taking the coupon without buying the product it’s attached to, one is decreasing the value of that product. Call it stealing, or damaging, or no big deal, or whatever you want to call it, but it clearly lessens the value of the package (product A with attached coupon). Anything else someone did to lessen the value of a product would be called stealing, or damaging, or something else that reflects the wrongness of doing so. Why filching a coupon should be exempt from such judgment escapes me. The coupon is not **exclusively for** product A because the manufacturer wants you to buy more of their products. By not limiting the coupon to one product, they make the coupon a more appealing enticement to the customer. They already (theoretically) have encouraged you to buy product A to get the coupon, so they don’t need to make the coupon for only product A to make that sale. They’d be happy for you to also buy more product A, or product B, or product C, etc. They just want you to buy one product A first, so they put the coupon on it. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2005, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476/87 "2005-08-05T16:39:01Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > You don’t. How do I know that that guy who just dropped his wallet in front of me didn’t intend for me to have it? > > You can justify a lot of things that are wrong. You know, you’re really going Pitward with this. Because I would take a coupon off a box and use it on another box, I’d steal someone’s wallet? That’s a vile accusation and completely wrong. I assure you, other than my nefarious coupon shenanigans, I’m a law abiding citizen. I do volunteer work. I give to charity. Kids love me. So maybe you should stop and reflect if this discussion is worth it before you really hurt someone’s feelings… for NO GOOD REASON. See: teapot, tempest in. > [@](#): > > Until I see a sign that says “the coupons on Box A can be removed and used for Boxes B & C”, I’m not taking it. It says it’s good for ANY BOCA PRODUCT. That’s good enough for me. If it’s not good enough for you, then that means more coupons for people who aren’t deprived of oxygen from being way up high on that horse. > [@](#): > > Well, the difference is that my definition of “stealing” doesn’t include your “rationalization clause”. There are no clauses. The definition is “to take (the property of another) without right or permission.” I feel I have the right, since it’s FOR ANY BOCA PRODUCT. That also gives me permission. You think it doesn’t. That doesn’t make you right and me wrong. It makes us in a state of disagreement on a matter of opinion, not a black and white situation where you get to sit in judgement. If you insist on painting everyone who disagrees with you as morally deficient, then expect for people to think you need to relax, at the very least. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2005, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476/88 "2005-08-05T16:56:02Z")
> [@Gary T](#): > > The coupon is **on** product A because they want to stimulate sales of product A. By adding a coupon to the box, they increase its value. By taking the coupon without buying the product it’s attached to, one is decreasing the value of that product. Call it stealing, or damaging, or no big deal, or whatever you want to call it, but it clearly lessens the value of the package (product A with attached coupon). No, not really. The box is still worth the same amount as it was before. Perhaps you are removing the extra value that the coupon brought the product, but you are not decreasing the inherent value of the product, which remains static regardless of the presence or absence off a coupon. I feel like I’ve explained that about 15 times now. > [@](#): > > Anything else someone did to lessen the value of a product would be called stealing, or damaging, or something else that reflects the wrongness of doing so. Why filching a coupon should be exempt from such judgment escapes me. And it escapes me why you feel the need to judge. We’re at an impasse, and I don’t think there’s a right or a wrong answer here. It’s a matter of opinion, and one that clear isn’t going to be resolved here. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2005, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476/89 "2005-08-05T17:35:54Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Perhaps you are removing the extra value that the coupon brought the product, but you are not decreasing the inherent value of the product, which remains static regardless of the presence or absence off a coupon. Now we have a common point. 1. There is no “perhaps”. By removing the coupon, you ARE removing the extra value that the coupon brought the product. That is simply a tautology. 2. By your own definition of stealing, _you are taking that value without the right or permission to do so_. You haven’t stolen the package. No one has said that at all. What you’ve stolen was the value that the coupon added to the less desirable Boca product. Now, for you to say this isn’t stealing, you must either disagree with 1 or 2 – a tautology, or your own words. Now, anything beyond that is just rationalizing. It’s a person saying, “they’re a subsidiary of Kraft. It’s not hurting them.” or “well, the coupon doesn’t explicitly state it’s for that product, so I can take it” or “I think they MEANT for it to be on the other boxes” or “the coupon on the other boxes must have fallen off in the back.” Yes, that all might diminish the severity of it. But we’re all agreed here that this is a pretty mild thing to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476/90 "2005-08-05T17:55:37Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > Now we have a common point. > > 1. There is no “perhaps”. By removing the coupon, you ARE removing the extra value that the coupon brought the product. That is simply a tautology. No, you’re MOVING the extra value to another Boca product. Consequently, it’s a zero sum game for the company, and no one is hurt. Since the terms of the coupon allow it to be moved, as does the placement of it, I still fail to see where there’s a crime being committed. > [@](#): > > Now, for you to say this isn’t stealing, you must either disagree with 1 or 2 – a tautology, or your own words. Heh. Not quite, but good try. > [@](#): > > But we’re all agreed here that this is a pretty mild thing to begin with. Are we? People have thrown the words “evil,” “thief,” and questioned the inner character of people who’d take the coupon. You implied that I might steal someone’s wallet, or could rationalize doing so. Any time I try to indicate what a small, small thing this is, I’m accused of trying to wave away a moral or ethical wrong. To me, all of those reactions are extreme for something so idiotic as this coupon issue. No, it’s not a slippery slope. No, this situation does not entitle anyone to extrapolate about another person’s moral fiber. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476/91 "2005-08-05T17:57:31Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > And it escapes me why you feel the need to judge. We’re at an impasse, and I don’t think there’s a right or a wrong answer here. It’s a matter of opinion, and one that clear isn’t going to be resolved here. Maybe not, but picture this scenario. Boca has 60 items in the store. 20 have the $.50 coupon on them and cost $4 per box. The rest of the items cost $2.50 per box. You take the coupon(s) off the $4 box and use it to purchase the 2.50 dollar box. You got to save .50. I come into the store and find one of the 4 dollar boxes (I really like the product so I'm going to buy it no matter). I purchase the item and pay full price because the coupon was not there to be used. I'm out .50. The intention of the manufacturer was to have the persons buying the $4 box save the money. _Your_ intention is to use it indiscriminately. I think, in these cases, the **original** location of the coupon trumps any percieved freedoms you feel you may have with the coupon. There are other ways to distribute coupons for various items in the stores. If Boca wanted to do this they could have placed some coupons in a small display next to their products. They didn’t, they put them on certain items for a reason. See my last post for those possible reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2005, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476/92 "2005-08-05T18:03:55Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > No, not really. The box is still worth the same amount as it was before. No. It might have the same **price** that it had before, but it’s **worth** less because there’s not as much there now. > [@](#): > > Perhaps you are removing the extra value that the coupon brought the product, but you are not decreasing the inherent value of the product, which remains static regardless of the presence or absence off a coupon. You definitely are removing that extra value. You are not decreasing the value of the product per se, but you are decreasing the value of the package (product + coupon) that the manufacturer offered. > [@](#): > > And it escapes me why you feel the need to judge. Need to judge? I’m saying if someone smushes a loaf of bread they’ve damaged it and it would be judged a wrong thing to do. If someone took the lace off of a shoe they’ve stolen it and it would be judged a wrong thing to do. Who wouldn’t make that judgment? > [@](#): > > We’re at an impasse, and I don’t think there’s a right or a wrong answer here. It’s a matter of opinion, and one that clear isn’t going to be resolved here. That seems to be true. ---
**Author:** ![marymargaret](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@marymargaret](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marymargaret)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476/93 "2005-08-05T19:37:32Z")
I think the coupon belongs to the purchaser of whatever product it was on. Stealing seems a bit harsh, but it wasn’t kosher. ;j ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2005, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476/94 "2005-08-05T20:30:26Z")
Two problems here. 1. It seems very unlikely that the coupons were intended to be transferable. By far, the most likely explananation is that Boca wanted to give an incentive to buy a particular product. Removing the coupon defeats that purpose so you can just save a few bucks on products you were going to buy anyway. Hence, it’s harming Boca (or Kraft, as the case may be). 2. I don’t think anyone’s pointed this out, yet: it could be harming the grocery store. The logical extension of this practice is people rummaging through the Boca packages looking for the ones that still have coupons on them, thus disrupting the display. Even failing that, just one or two instances of coupon transference harms the store by giving the shelves a non-uniform appearance. Some boxes have coupons, but others (of the same product) do not? Sub-optimal, unprofessional, etc. It is an incredibly trivial matter, and I do worse things on a daily basis. It’s still shady, though. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476/95 "2005-08-05T20:48:02Z")
Just for the record, so far 43 people have weighed in on the OP’s question (including the OP, himself). 13 seem to think it’s totally ok, while 29 put it somewhere on the wrong side of kosher. One says the matter is too trivial even to have an opinion about. So, “wrong” is beating “alrighty then” by better than 2:1. Thppppppbbbbtttt! ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2005, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476/96 "2005-08-05T21:01:59Z")
Of course it’s wrong (unless it’s explicitly stated otherwise on the package or coupon that they don’t care that you take the coupon). Just beccause it’s easily removed doesn’t mean it’s not part of the product they’re trying to sell. It’s not a big wrong, but it’s wrong nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476/97 "2005-08-05T21:37:00Z")
Add me to the “It’s wrong but not a huge deal” camp. The company is trying to promote their product. Let’s look at it this way. What if you ran a radio station and Boca ran a 15 second ad for chicken, since they want people to try it. You decide on your own to ditch the chicken ad and instead run a prior ad for Boca burgers. When they complain, you reply that they still have to pay for the ad because you still advertised a Boca product, even though it was a different product than the one they paid for. Would that be unethical? Would Boca be entitled to their ad money back? ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476/98 "2005-08-05T21:40:06Z")
Okay, okay…I’ll try the damned chicken if they’ll only answer that e-mail! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476/99 "2005-08-05T21:55:30Z")
They still haven’t answered the e-mail. They probably think I’m a random nut with a coupon obsession. In any case, this thread is tiring me out. I don’t know why I’ve argued so hard about something that I care about so little. I’m still going to take the coupons when I see them. I’m a terrible person. I can live with that. ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2005, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476/100 "2005-08-05T22:21:02Z")
Add me to the “Wrong, but not a huge deal” camp. Whether or not it was technically stealing, it’s damn rude to deface property that doesn’t belong to you. Until they’re purchased, products belong to the store. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accused-of-theft-at-the-grocery/315476.md?page=6)