# Accusing a Group of Malice in GD **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 22, 2024, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062 "2024-08-22T20:42:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062/81 "2024-08-23T03:00:57Z")
I have also written about my opinions on topic bans. [More](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-some-viewpoints-be-eventually-banned-regardless-of-how-polite-civil/854210/79&username_filters=max_s) than [once](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/?username_filters=max_s). I’m not in favor of them. But I also think if that is what is more important to the community, there should be topic bans. Or bans of specific, harmful opinions on a given topic. And I’ve said that before, too. > [@...will the board consider explicit transphobia hate-speech?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-board-consider-explicit-transphobia-hate-speech/842204/265): > > Those situations where I must choose between defending those who would offend minorities and the minorities themselves are the situations where one side acts with malice or insincerity ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062/82 "2024-08-23T03:03:52Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I have also written about my opinions on topic bans. [More](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-some-viewpoints-be-eventually-banned-regardless-of-how-polite-civil/854210/79&username_filters=max_s) than [once](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/?username_filters=max_s). I’m not in favor of them. Your open-mindedness is an inspiration to us all. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062/83 "2024-08-23T03:14:03Z")
Has anyone ever swayed you from those positions? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062/84 "2024-08-23T03:16:08Z")
For the most part, nobody has tried. **Hamilton** did debate me on the Ninth Amendment, not specifically as relates to same-sex marriage, but generally. It is, I think, my favorite of all the threads I’ve participated in. I didn’t change my mind in the end but I did learn a lot. I have changed my mind on other questions, even some legal/philosophic ones. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062/85 "2024-08-23T03:25:46Z")
**Max\_S** , as the OP of that thread, I’m not sure what you want exactly. Do you want disclaimers attached to every statement? _“Not all \_\_\_\_\_ are bad.” “Most \_\_\_\_\_ this.” “Many\_\_\_\_\_\_ that.”_ Technically, pretty much every statement about any group of humans in the world would have to have such disclaimers attached. I mean, there were even good Nazis. John Rabe, a Nazi, saved thousands of civilian lives in World War II. Although, sure, I could and perhaps should have said “If (some) conservatives think…” I’m not being sarcastic, I don’t understand what exactly you are advocating. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062/86 "2024-08-23T03:28:32Z")
I have no issues with your posts and did not feel they insulted me. But, off-topic, I would encourage you to read [**Miller** ’s contributions](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-conservatives-think-being-gay-is-a-choice-what-do-they-think-are-the-benefits-of-being-gay/1006014/12?username_filters=miller) in that thread. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062/87 "2024-08-23T03:41:23Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > But I [have](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-obsessed-with-same-sex-marriage/916156/87) stated [my opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-obsessed-with-same-sex-marriage/916156/92?username_filters=max_s) on that exact question. See also [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-we-need-a-constitutional-amendment-guaranteeing-marriage-reproductive-rights/974014/59), [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-air-force-is-unconstitutional/947441/179), [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-ninth-amendment-to-the-united-states-constitution-itself-protect-individuals-from-state-infringement-of-unenumerated-rights/922125), [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/substantive-due-process/914993), the list goes on. You are apparently laboring under the misapprehension that I obsessively follow and catalogue your posts on this issues; let me assure you that this is not the case. I did extent the courtesy of reading the linked posts, several of which had little or nothing to do with same sex marriage, and even of those that did framed your objection in legalistic terms (in essence, that such a right was not within legal traditions or specifically enumerated in the Constitution) rather than making some evidential pr principled case for an objection based in logic or essential necessity. The closest that came to any fundamental explanation was this: > [@Why are conservatives obsessed with same sex marriage?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-obsessed-with-same-sex-marriage/916156/92): > > Specifically, I don’t agree with the theory of reverse incorporation and I don’t think a state’s denial of marriage licenses to same-sex couples necessarily violates the equal protection clause if the legal benefits are made available in some other fashion, eg: a civil union. Setting aside the prejudicial terminology in “reverse incorporation”, it does not explain why if civil unions are sufficient for same sex couples why they should not be legally adequate for male-female unions, and of course overlooks the substantial limitations of civil unions, to wit that states are not Constitutionally required to acknowledge ‘civil unions’, as well as protections for community property, parental rights, et cetera. And it certainly doesn’t explicate your objection to the extension of marriage to same sex couples—something that much of the developed world has legally codified as a fundamental right—being ensconced in American law beyond the argument of tradition. So, in plain language, is your specific objection to same sex marriage that is not veiled in some kind of malice or the cruelty of treating someone as a second class citizen for not being heterosexual? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062/88 "2024-08-23T03:50:05Z")
You can write thousand word arguments justifying bans on interracial marriage, immigration of Chinese people, etc. as long as you focus on the literal legal basis for all of these to the exclusion of any consideration of humanity of people. This is a thread that runs through conservatism. Slavery is legal. Grandfathering voting rights is legal, separate but equal is legal, anti miscegenation laws are legal, child “marriage” is legal, every kind of legal horror is, well, legal, by the circular reasoning of the conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062/89 "2024-08-23T04:03:09Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > > [@Aspenglow](#): > > > > Boomers are not a protected class. > > Maybe they should be. A Boomer had no choice of when and where they were born. Nor can they opt out of being a Boomer. Discrimination based on a characteristic that wasn’t chosen and can’t be changed tends to be fraught. > > Also, isn’t age a protected category in American law? “Boomer” doesn’t even mean “Boomer” when the kids these days use it. That is to say, when someone from Generation Z calls someone “boomer” they don’t literally mean someone from the Baby Boomer Generation. They mean someone over ~40. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062/90 "2024-08-23T04:11:08Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > So, in plain language, is your specific objection to same sex marriage that is not veiled in some kind of malice or the cruelty of treating someone as a second class citizen for not being heterosexual? That _is_ the objection. It’s not exactly a secret if you search for “@Max_S same-sex marriage” or any other topic. I’m not sure how much more plain I can make it. I don’t agree with the legal arguments _actually used_ to protect the right to same-sex marriage in this country. I don’t bear ill will to gay people, I just don’t think the law should be interpreted the way it has been. I don’t know what else you’re asking of me at this point. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062/91 "2024-08-23T04:51:38Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I don’t bear ill will to gay people, I just don’t think the law should be interpreted the way it has been. And that’s a distinction without a difference, even ignoring that since we can’t read your mind claims that you “bear no ill will” are empty platitudes. Why would anyone _care_ about ill will or the lack of it when handed a statement of intent to do harm? Which that is. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062/92 "2024-08-23T05:01:21Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Why would anyone _care_ about ill will or the lack of it when handed a statement of intent to do harm? Which that is. It reminds me of the movie trope where someone is about to shoot someone else and tells them it is not personal as if that makes it better somehow. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062/93 "2024-08-23T18:34:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Should the entire board change the policy on behalf of a group of people based on your claims of your own personal feelings, especially when said group of people aren’t even close to being an oppressed minority? Really? 😛 🤪 🤨 > [@A phrase that might need to be banned (outside The BBQ Pit)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-phrase-that-might-need-to-be-banned-outside-the-bbq-pit/1005501): > > “People are saying…” (and close variations) without immediately pointing out who in particular those people are. It is used to be a checkless way to back up one’s own beliefs or, worse, to see what floats then declare one’s supposed beliefs after the fact. It is almost as bad as saying “I was just joking!” After a person’s comments fall flat. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062/94 "2024-08-23T18:38:52Z")
:cough: Karen. :cough: ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062/95 "2024-08-23T19:04:48Z")
_“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”_ –John Kenneth Galbraith Defending the indefensible, and struggling mightily to couch the indefensible in superficially less vile terminology, gives rise to things like [**scientific racism**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism) – not coincidentally, a topic that’s generally closed to further discussion on this site. While trying to make “good faith arguments” for what tends to meet the dictionary definition _of_ bigotry or intolerance _may not yet be_ on the list of tired topics here, the fact that those arguments tend to be met with more than a bit of opprobrium should give the person offering those arguments a sense of where those topics are inexorably headed. Once aware of that sense, it’s – IMHO – incumbent upon a moral and ethical person to loosen the grip on, and take a long, hard look at their closely-held belief – the one on which their grip is vise-like and immutable. There’s an old ‘joke’ about a husband who tells his wife, “I’m not arguing with you. I’m just explaining to you why I’m right.” Hi, @Max_S !! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062/96 "2024-08-23T19:11:17Z")
Look at my concession eleven posts in, that everyone that posted after that just ignored. And see someone about that cough. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062/97 "2024-08-23T19:45:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Look at my concession eleven posts in, that everyone that posted after that just ignored. > And see someone about that cough My apologies. His thread was in regard to this: [Resolved, that using “karen” as a pejorative is off limits - About This Message Board - Straight Dope Message Board](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430) ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062/98 "2024-08-23T20:07:24Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > That _is_ the objection. It’s not exactly a secret if you search for “@Max_S same-sex marriage” or any other topic. I’m not sure how much more plain I can make it. I don’t agree with the legal arguments _actually used_ to protect the right to same-sex marriage in this country. I don’t bear ill will to gay people, I just don’t think the law should be interpreted the way it has been. I don’t know what else you’re asking of me at this point. I read a lot of the posts you listed about your objection to same-sex marriage. (not all of them) They seem to focus on the legal theory used to overturn the ban. I suppose that’s debatable, (but one side certainly has the better argument) but that misses the point that i think we’re discussing here. Regardless of the legal reasoning used to strike down the bans, _do you think the bans themselves were a good idea?_ If you support them for reasons unrelated to malice, maybe you could explain that? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062/99 "2024-08-23T20:54:33Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > My views make me conservative whether I acknowledge it or not. I could stop being conservative, but then I would have to change my views, for example on whether being gay is a lifestyle choice. Dude, are you saying being a conservative is a part of your being, but being gay is a lifestyle choice? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-a-group-of-malice-in-gd/1006062/100 "2024-08-23T23:49:39Z")
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