# Accusing your opponent of what you yourself are doing **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 8, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-your-opponent-of-what-you-yourself-are-doing/637147 "2012-10-08T22:40:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-your-opponent-of-what-you-yourself-are-doing/637147/21 "2012-10-29T15:56:26Z")
Could we just call it “Pulling a Lady MacBeth?” ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-your-opponent-of-what-you-yourself-are-doing/637147/22 "2012-10-29T19:09:53Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > A better example would be Dennis Kucinich accusing the GOP of being appeasers. Or senator Ben Nelson accusing republicans of not being willing to sign laws unless there is pork for their individual states. Those would be examples of this behavior occurring on the left. Like Vice President Joe Biden saying he was against putting two wars on a credit card but voting for both of them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-your-opponent-of-what-you-yourself-are-doing/637147/23 "2012-10-29T19:14:46Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > The most egregious example that I recall from this year was during the RNC I believe, when many on the right were beating the drum about how divisive the President has been. They’ve been doing that continually for four years, actually. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-your-opponent-of-what-you-yourself-are-doing/637147/24 "2012-10-29T19:16:04Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Could we just call it “Pulling a Lady MacBeth?” I don’t think so; Lady M accuses Macbeth of being “too full o’ the milk of human kindness,” a charge that cannot fairly be levied against her . . . nor against him, for that matter. As for accusing Duncan’s guards of killing him when Macbeth has done that – that’s as much Macbeth’s lie as his lady’s. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-your-opponent-of-what-you-yourself-are-doing/637147/25 "2012-10-29T19:38:03Z")
> [@Gerald\_II](#): > > Like Vice President Joe Biden saying he was against putting two wars on a credit card but voting for both of them. Those were separate things: the two conflicts and how to fund the two conflicts. Biden supported the War in Afghanistan and the use of force against Iraq.\* However, there were also the tax cuts the Bush Administration proposed and Congress approved while these two wars were going on thereby “putting them on a credit card.” Biden was against the tax cuts. - When voted on in 2002, the proposal on Iraq was partially based on the (false) assumption the Bush Administration would try to work out a negotiated solution with Hussein before invading the country militarily. The use of force provision was supposedly there to add teeth to American diplomatic efforts. Of course, Bush was never really serious about trying to find a peaceful solution and just wanted to give the impression that the US wasn’t going to shoot first and ask questions later. [QUOTE=BigT] Yes, it’s a variation of the tu quoque, but what’s interesting about it is that it’s using a preemptive variation to make false accusations, which results in deflecting the accusations against you before they are made. … It’s like a tu quoque on the second level: the well has been poisoned because, if I accuse you of what you actually do, it appears as if I’m making a tu quoque. [/QUOTE] Exactly. The American rightwing has been using this tactic for even longer than the OP mentions. They often used it during the 00s to deflect anticipated criticism of the Bush Administration and Republicans in Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-your-opponent-of-what-you-yourself-are-doing/637147/26 "2012-10-29T21:42:55Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > Those were separate things: the two conflicts and how to fund the two conflicts. Biden supported the War in Afghanistan and the use of force against Iraq.\* However, there were also the tax cuts the Bush Administration proposed and Congress approved while these two wars were going on thereby “putting them on a credit card.” Biden was against the tax cuts. How did Biden expect the war to be paid for, considering the Iraq War Resolution was voted on after the first Bush tax cut? When did we first start borrowing money? > [@](#): > > When voted on in 2002, the proposal on Iraq was partially based on the (false) assumption the Bush Administration would try to work out a negotiated solution with Hussein before invading the country militarily. It granted the president the authority to declare war. That’s why 21 Democratic senators voted against it. Biden voted to grant Bush that power, a war that was put on a credit card. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-your-opponent-of-what-you-yourself-are-doing/637147/27 "2012-10-30T20:08:40Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > The invisible, yet still clammy, hand of Karl Rove. This is how I see it. It’s nothing new at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/accusing-your-opponent-of-what-you-yourself-are-doing/637147.md?page=1)