# Acid Lamp, you want to try reading for context? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 24, 2008, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acid-lamp-you-want-to-try-reading-for-context/474210 "2008-11-24T05:07:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acid-lamp-you-want-to-try-reading-for-context/474210/1 "2008-11-24T05:07:09Z")
Rather than hijack [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=494257), I’m calling you out on your bullshit in the pit. > [@Pit bulls](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pit-bulls/474045/16): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by BMax > Pound for pound, they are the strongest breed of dog. They have the strongest jaws and the most powerful bite of any breed I am familiar with. They were bred for centuries to fight each other, so some them have a very strong drive to fight other dogs. This drive is known as ‘game’. This game can (rarely) be misdirected towards humans. A well bred, socialized and well raised pit bull will be a very loyal, loving pet. That said, I would not recomend them to a novice dog owner. Due to their strength, stamina and resistance to pain they can do more damage than any other breed if they bite a person. They require a very responsible master, lots of attention and a secure fenced yard. As a breed they are very emotionally dependent and cannot abide being ignored or neglected. I would not leave an unfamiliar pit bull alone with a child. If you do get a male pit bull, please get him neutered immediately. There are pit bull and pit bull mix puppies at every animal shelter. Also, neutering before he becomes game will make your dog much easier to manage and more pleasant to be around. > > Crap. Repeating commonly heard “knowledge” doesn’t make any of it true. > Quote: > Originally posted by Various sources, : Myths surrounding the American Pit Bull Terrier, The real Pit Pull, and Pit Bull fact VS Legend > > “Pit Bulls don’t feel pain.” Pit Bulls have the same nervous system of any other breed, and they can and do feel pain. Historically, those dogs that would tolerate or ignore discomfort and pain and finish the task they were required to perform were the dogs that were bred and the sort of dogs breeders strove to produce. This is the trait of “gameness” that so many breed fanciers speak of, which may be defined as, “The desire to continue on and/or complete a task despite pain and discomfort.” > > “Pit Bulls have more bite pressure per square inch (PSI) than any other breed.” This is pure speculation at best, damaging myth at worse. There have been no exhaustive studies conducted to prove that Pit Bulls have the strongest jaws of any breed. There likely could not be any truly conclusive testing done to measure something like strongest breed PSI. A reason for this lies in the fact that dogs bite with varying pressure depending upon the situation, and what factors are driving the bite at that particular point in time. A dog cannot be instructed to bite down on a measuring device as hard as possible, so a tester could have no way of knowing whether or not a particular dog being tested is actually using its jaws to capacity in any given testing phase. There is also large size variation in any breed, and one must assume strength varies as well. A very large (but not typical or standard) Pit Bull may bite harder than a small Rottweiler, German Shepherd, or other breed, while a standard sized Pit Bull may not have as much jaw power as a larger, typical sized Rottweiler, etc. Also, if one breed is to claim “highest bite pressure”, all breeds would have to be compared. All 500+ of them. > > More on this: The very few tests that have been done comparing the bite pressure of several breeds showed pressure PSI to be considerably lower than some wild estimates that have been made. Recently Dr. Brady Barr of National Geoprahic conducted a comparative test between a Pit Bull, a Rottweiler, and a German Shepherd. The Pit Bull had the LOWEST PSI OF THE THREE, measuring in with a bite of 320 pounds per square inch of pressure. > > Dr. I. Lerh Brisbin of the University of Georgia states, To the best of our knowledge, there are no published scientific studies that would allow any meaningful comparison to be made of the biting power of various breeds of dogs. There are, moreover, compelling technical reasons why such data describing biting power in terms of ‘pounds per square inch’ can never be collected in a meaningful way. All figures describing biting power in such terms can be traced to either unfounded rumor or, in some cases, to newspaper articles with no foundation in factual data. (From the ADBA booklet, “Discover the American Pit Bull Terrier.) > > “Pit Bulls attack more people than any other breed.” Bite statistics are difficult to obtain accurately. Dogs that are referred to as “pit bulls” in statistical reports actually are a variety of breeds and mixes all lumped together under the “pit bull” heading. Also, many people have a difficult time properly identifying a true Pit Bull, so added to the statistics are those dogs that have been misidentified. Considering these factors, the actual number of attacks attributable to American Pit Bull Terriers is considerably lower than represented. Also important to understand is the extreme popularity of the Pit Bull and pit bull-type breeds. By some estimates, numbers-wise they are the most popular of all dog breeds. It is only logical to assume that the breed with the higher number of individual dogs would be represented with a higher number of bites. Viewing older statistical reports for the Center of Disease Control, one will see that trends in breed popularity reflect in the number of bites attributed to a specific breed during a specific period of time. Next time you qoute half of my post, deliberately losing the context and ‘refute’ it, make sure that you’re addressing what I wrote. The context thing: > [@Acid Lamp](#): > > Repeating commonly heard “knowledge” doesn’t make any of it true. You left out the first paragraph where I gave my cite: ten years with at least one pit bull in my house. I’m not “Repeating commonly heard “knowledge””, I’m reporting my first hand experience. Direct observation, unlike you regurgitating some crap you read in a book written by…Who exactly? Oh, yes “_Various sources_”. Might as well say "_everyone knows_. Listen, pal, just because I didn’t write a book or webpage doesn’t make my observations any less factual. Now for putting words in my mouth: Show me, in what I wrote, where I said “pit bulls don’t feel pain”. My exact words were: > [@BMax](#): > > Due to their strength, stamina and resistance to pain they can do more damage than any other breed if they bite a person. “resistance to pain”. Big fucking difference. Where did I say their nervous system is different? Moving on, we have > [@Acid Lamp](#): > > “Pit Bulls have more bite pressure per square inch (PSI) than any other breed.” I assume you were responding to: > [@BMax](#): > > They have the strongest jaws and the most powerful bite of any breed I am familiar with. Read the last four words of that, asshole. they are not “in the world”. My dog destroyed a few car tires that I hung in the garage for him. At the age of ten he still destroys Kong toys. Let me know if you are familiar with Kong toys, I’ll assume you know what car tires are. > [@Acid Lamp](#): > > “Pit Bulls attack more people than any other breed.” Where the hell did I say anything remotely like this in my post? You want to refute what I actually said? Maybe you got so carried away being a tough guy on the internet that you can’t argue honestly. As far as repeating commonly heard “knowledge”, I have lived with this dog for ten years. He’s an ADBA registered American Pit Bull Terrier off the Hienzl line out of Colorado. The Reverend Howard Heinzl was a big dog fighter back in his time and bred some magnificent dogs. My dog also has some Carver, Morgan and Colby in his pedigree, so he’s a real “pit bull”, not something that looks like it might be a pit or dogo argentino or presa canario or boxer or mastiff or something. I used to show him in ADBA sanctioned shows, which means that I spent a lot of time around a lot of pits, up close and personal. That and in the last ten years I’ve had three roommates who had female pits, so in the last ten years I’ve lived with a total of four pit bulls in my home. I delivered, raised and found homes for a litter of pit bull puppies when an irresponsible roommate abandoned a pregnant female in my house. I know what I’m talking about. What is your experience with pit bulls? Have you raised any pits or even been to any ADBA sanctioned shows or weight pulls? Or are you just pulling something out of a book? The next time you try to refute me, have the courage to be honest and address what I actually say. Also try to keep the quote in context. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acid-lamp-you-want-to-try-reading-for-context/474210/2 "2008-11-24T05:37:55Z")
What is it with pit bulls and this board? I like pets, and I sincerely tried to understand your post, but my eyes just kept on glazing over. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acid-lamp-you-want-to-try-reading-for-context/474210/3 "2008-11-24T11:47:10Z")
That’s just standard dog show/breeder talk. It’s technical. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acid-lamp-you-want-to-try-reading-for-context/474210/4 "2008-11-24T15:37:59Z")
Wow, you own a pitbull? Well shit, paint my ass red and call me properly chastised. After all, owning a dog certainly makes you an expert on the breed, you get your certificate with the puppy and collar. First off, for someone who claims as much breed experience as you have, your parsing, mealy-mouthed ass attempts at passing off myth as truth is laughable. I didn’t quote your ass exactly? Ooooh! well pardon me all to hell. Let’s do this right then: > [@](#): > > Pound for pound, they are the strongest breed of dog. Cite? > [@](#): > > They have the strongest jaws and the most powerful bite of any breed I am familiar with Cite? This pretty much the same thing as the meme that they have the strongest jaws of any dog. As to Kong toys, I have a shar-pei cross that destroys them, Beef leg bones, tire-biters, and gnaws the edges of logs. I don’t think that my reply was out of line here, and at least I posted some sort of proper scientific information rather than citing my own experience. Who am I to argue though? you own a pitbull. Guess what? I own a pit mix myself. I guess I’m an expert too! > [@](#): > > Due to their strength, stamina and resistance to pain they can do more damage than any other breed if they bite a person Cite? This is pretty close to the “pitbulls don’t feel pain like other dogs” meme I addressed. For someone who travels in the Pitbull circles you seem to repeat of of bullshit breeder hype that is either patently false or a wild exaggeration of a characteristic common to many other breeds. Since your comments were just half-assed versions of urban legends, I stand by my post. Douchebag. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acid-lamp-you-want-to-try-reading-for-context/474210/5 "2008-11-24T17:47:47Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Since your comments were just half-assed versions of urban legends, I stand by my post. Yeah, the bite strength argument is particularly urban legendy. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acid-lamp-you-want-to-try-reading-for-context/474210/6 "2008-11-24T19:04:29Z")
So this guy OWNS a Pit Bull, and still buys the ULs?