# Ack! What to do when your SO belongs in Etiquette Hell? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 8, 2008, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696 "2008-01-08T03:55:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Ro\_Carter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7feea3/32.png) [@Ro\_Carter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ro_Carter)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696/201 "2008-01-08T22:46:28Z")
This whole thing reminds me of an incident back in high school. At my school, homecoming dances were always formal. A friend of mine was invited to a homecoming dance at another school by her boyfriend, and assumed the dress code was the same. Her boyfriend comes to pick her up, dressed rather casually, gives her an odd look, but says nothing. They arrive at the dance, and my friend is the only one “dressed up”. Throughout the evening she was the target of several comments labeling her either a freak or a whore. Were the people making those comments jerks? Yes. Was she attempting to advertise her economic status, or denigrate theirs? No. Sometimes dress codes are simply printed to avoid this kind of uncomfortableness. BTW, she dumped his sorry tail very quickly after that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696/202 "2008-01-08T22:46:41Z")
Obviously the culture has changed and people actually believe this bilge that weddings are supposed to be all about guests being servile to hosts. I won’t change anybody’s minds but it’s why I despise wedding culture. My best man wore slacks and a polo shirt. My wife’s brother wore jeans and an NRA T-shirt to our wedding. We asked for nothing and imposed no conditions. That’s the way weddings are supposed to be. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696/203 "2008-01-08T22:46:50Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It’s irrelevant what the couple wants. Their job is to make their guests feel welcome and comfortable. [/QUOTE] Then what are the hosts getting out of it? People throw parties because they want to throw a party, which, presumably, will be fun for them, not so they can pay to feed a bunch of people who don’t give the least bit of thought to the host’s enjoyment or wishes. I have no idea why some people feel that, as guests, they’re completely absolved of any responsibility regarding everyone’s fun time. A good guest list can make or break a party; the problem with weddings is that there is so much obligation and family stuff tied into them that you can’t just drop a boorish guest from the list next time, because there isn’t a next time. Weddings feel festive because people treat them as festive events. People who don’t contribute to the mood, including dress and grooming, are just leeching from those who put in the effort, which is an insult to the host. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696/204 "2008-01-08T22:50:12Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] There’s a false dichotomy being represented here. Not wearing a suit does not equal “dressing like a slob.” You can be neatly and nicely dressed without wearing a striped confomity noose around your neck. They can still have costume parties or whatever. It’s only rude if they make participation madatory. They should let people know they’re welcome whether they dress up or not. [/QUOTE] But they aren’t, and it has nothing to do with the hosts necessarily - if _everyone else_ takes the trouble to dress up for a fancy dress party clearly identified as such, and _you_ don’t, you are going to stand out and not in a good way - you are in effect damaging the party experience for other guests. You are being rude to _them_, by being a party pooper, and your hosts would be in the right not to invite you again. The solution is obvious - if you do not have a costume, do not wish to take the trouble to acquire one, or cannot afford the expense, or feel like being a non-conformist, gracefully decline the invitation. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696/205 "2008-01-08T22:52:02Z")
[QUOTE=Vihaga] Then what are the hosts getting out of it? [/quote] Damned if I know. Nothing I guess. I just see the invitations as a courtesy to the guests. A lot of other people seem to see the whole thing as a _cart blanche_ excuse for the couple to be as narcissistic, and controlling, and greedy and attention seeking as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696/206 "2008-01-08T22:54:45Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Obviously the culture has changed and people actually believe this bilge that weddings are supposed to be all about guests being servile to hosts. I won’t change anybody’s minds but it’s why I despise wedding culture. My best man wore slacks and a polo shirt. My wife’s brother wore jeans and an NRA T-shirt to our wedding. We asked for nothing and imposed no conditions. That’s the way weddings are supposed to be. [/QUOTE] That is the way it was _for you_, and you have a perfect right to have it so. You do not, however, have a right to impose your views on others by aggressive rudeness at _their_ weddings - and I’d say that showing up to a black tie event in a NRA T-shirt would fall into the category of “aggressive rudeness”. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696/207 "2008-01-08T22:54:47Z")
[QUOTE=Malthus] But they aren’t, and it has nothing to do with the hosts necessarily - if _everyone else_ takes the trouble to dress up for a fancy dress party clearly identified as such, and _you_ don’t, you are going to stand out and not in a good way - you are in effect damaging the party experience for other guests. You are being rude to _them_, by being a party pooper, and your hosts would be in the right not to invite you again. [/QUOTE] Oh, deary me. They went to a costume party and someone wasn’t wearing a costume. How traumatic for them. Where’s my violin? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696/208 "2008-01-08T22:55:05Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Obviously the culture has changed and people actually believe this bilge that weddings are supposed to be all about guests being servile to hosts. [/QUOTE] I won’t go so far as to say “it’s all about the couple,” as that’s where stories of out-of-control Bridezillas come from, but it’s not all about the guests, either. Both parties have a responsibility to the other. The hosts ensure to the best of their ability that the guests have a good time and are comfortable, and the guests do their best to be, well, good guests. Meaning that you don’t get trashed off your ass and make an inappropriate pass at your second cousin, you don’t interrupt the first dance by yelling “PLAY FREE BIRD!!!” at the band, and you make some kind of minimal effort to dress appropriately. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696/209 "2008-01-08T23:06:26Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Oh, deary me. They went to a costume party and someone wasn’t wearing a costume. How traumatic for them. Where’s my violin? [/QUOTE] Not a huge disaster, but a bit of minor, unnecessary and unwelcome _rudeness_ that, minorly, spoils the party mood. Being a wet blanket and a party pooper isn’t a tragedy, but why do it? In any event, I’ll have to borrow that violin - for all those forced by the uncaring conformity of society to wear a suit at a wedding. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696/210 "2008-01-08T23:06:58Z")
[QUOTE=MsWhatsit] I won’t go so far as to say “it’s all about the couple,” as that’s where stories of out-of-control Bridezillas come from, but it’s not all about the guests, either. Both parties have a responsibility to the other. The hosts ensure to the best of their ability that the guests have a good time and are comfortable, and the guests do their best to be, well, good guests. Meaning that you don’t get trashed off your ass and make an inappropriate pass at your second cousin, you don’t interrupt the first dance by yelling “PLAY FREE BIRD!!!” at the band, and you make some kind of minimal effort to dress appropriately. [/QUOTE] I agree with all that. I’m just disagreeing about what constututes “dressing appropriately.” I’m not saying people should wear jeans and T-shirts (my late brother-in-law notwithstanding), but slacks and a dress shirt should be good enough. ---
**Author:** ![myskepticsight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@myskepticsight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myskepticsight)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696/211 "2008-01-08T23:12:57Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] My best man wore slacks and a polo shirt. My wife’s brother wore jeans and an NRA T-shirt to our wedding. We asked for nothing and imposed no conditions. That’s the way weddings are supposed to be. [/QUOTE] No, that’s how YOUR wedding is supposed to be, because you want it that way. And why do you call ties “conformity nooses?” That just sounds what like a wannabe punk fifteen year old kid would say. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696/212 "2008-01-08T23:17:17Z")
[QUOTE=myskepticsight] No, that’s how YOUR wedding is supposed to be, because you want it that way. [/quote] _In my opinion_, that’s how hosts should always treat their guests. > [@](#): > > And why do you call ties “conformity nooses?” That just sounds what like a wannabe punk fifteen year old kid would say. Or something an aging hippie would say. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696/213 "2008-01-08T23:27:17Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] Sure. Sometimes. At other times, it still comes in quite handy. Whether a stanger in a dark alley is wearing a suit, gangsta clothes, or rags is most definitely going to affect how I handle myself. Most of that is pure gut reaction, and in most cases I’ll follow my gut. But I don’t walk through dark alleys much. What about other situations? How about approaching a coworker that I don’t know? If he’s wearing a suit, a lab coat, scrubs, a security guard jacket, or a janitor’s coveralls will tell me a great deal about who he is. Sure, he’s probably a great guy no matter what he’s wearing, but I can tell a good deal about his upbringing, education level, and ambition. I might be wrong about all of those things, but I can’t help but form initial opinions. [/QUOTE] Yeah, you’re right - it’s impossible to avoid those initial opinions. But one must try, because they’re dangerous. See my post about guys in suits in dark Glasgow alleys. If I assumed the suit-wearers were safe but the multipierced punks were a problem, I’d have had my short little ass kicked all around the city. Because the drunken loons in suits are very often out for fights, whereas the alt-rockers like I used to be very rarely are. So of course we form initial impressions based on visual observation. But we stick with them at our peril. ---
**Author:** ![lobstermobster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobstermobster/32/10033_2.png) [@lobstermobster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobstermobster)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696/214 "2008-01-08T23:33:54Z")
I cannot assign value to the opinions of people who insist on poisoning my field of vision with birkenstocks and socks. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696/215 "2008-01-08T23:39:40Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] _In my opinion_, that’s how hosts should always treat their guests. Or something an aging hippie would say. [/QUOTE] Keep saying it, my friend. I’m not an ageing hippy, just a not-so-ageing alt-rocker, but as long as people can get away with trite “ripostes” like “Hah hah, you must be fifteen!”, there will be a need to repeatedly state the obvious. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696/216 "2008-01-08T23:42:47Z")
[QUOTE=PaulParkhead] Yeah, you’re right - it’s impossible to avoid those initial opinions. But one must try, because they’re dangerous. See my post about guys in suits in dark Glasgow alleys. If I assumed the suit-wearers were safe but the multipierced punks were a problem, I’d have had my short little ass kicked all around the city. Because the drunken loons in suits are very often out for fights, whereas the alt-rockers like I used to be very rarely are. So of course we form initial impressions based on visual observation. But we stick with them at our peril. [/QUOTE] But you’re assuming that the suit-wearers are dangerous. You’re judging partly by what the people are wearing. No one has said that all suit-wearing people are good and all punks are bad. It all depends on context and whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696/217 "2008-01-08T23:44:32Z")
[QUOTE=Vihaga] Then what are the hosts getting out of it? People throw parties because they want to throw a party, which, presumably, will be fun for them, not so they can pay to feed a bunch of people who don’t give the least bit of thought to the host’s enjoyment or wishes. I have no idea why some people feel that, as guests, they’re completely absolved of any responsibility regarding everyone’s fun time. A good guest list can make or break a party; the problem with weddings is that there is so much obligation and family stuff tied into them that you can’t just drop a boorish guest from the list next time, because there isn’t a next time. Weddings feel festive because people treat them as festive events. People who don’t contribute to the mood, including dress and grooming, are just leeching from those who put in the effort, which is an insult to the host. [/QUOTE] Well, I guess my best man contributed to the spirit of things: he had sex with the head bridesmaid. Apparently that’s a Scottish tradition or something. No idea, I was never a best man - apparently I just don’t dress appropriately or something. Still, I guess she can definitively answer the question about what he was wearing under his kilt. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696/218 "2008-01-08T23:47:53Z")
[QUOTE=dangermom] But you’re assuming that the suit-wearers are dangerous. You’re judging partly by what the people are wearing. No one has said that all suit-wearing people are good and all punks are bad. It all depends on context and whatnot. [/QUOTE] Yes and no. It was suggested to me, with some justification, that we all make judgements based on appearances. I was simply arguing that yes, to some extent we do, but if we want to have fruitful (and safe) lives we’d better get the hell over such basic instincts. Of course I don’t run a mile every time I see a guy in a suit, but nor do I assume that people wearing suits are better specimens of humanity. Most of these guys wear suits on three occasions: weddings, funerals and court appearances for GBH. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696/219 "2008-01-08T23:58:25Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Obviously the culture has changed and people actually believe this bilge that weddings are supposed to be all about guests being servile to hosts. I won’t change anybody’s minds but it’s why I despise wedding culture. [/quote] First of all, it’s not just weddings. Any formal event carries an expectation that people dress appropriately. I guarantee a lot of people would be offended if your BIL wore an NRA t-shirt to a funeral where black suits were expected. Second, where do you see servility? The hosts are throwing a party. They invite you, they tell you how everyone else is going to be dressed. If you don’t want to be part of it, don’t go. If your attitude is so self-centered that you can’t try to join in to the spirit of the occasion, then you should stay home. That’s your prerogative. No one can make you dress up. > [@](#): > > My best man wore slacks and a polo shirt. My wife’s brother wore jeans and an NRA T-shirt to our wedding. We asked for nothing and imposed no conditions. That’s the way weddings are supposed to be. Don’t you think it’s a bit self-centered and imposing your standards on others to say how “weddings are supposed to be”? That’s how YOUR wedding was supposed to be. Other people’s should be how they want them. If your need to dress 100% as you please at all time trumps people’s desires for their wedding day, you definitely should stay home and ponder who exactly is being selfish in that situation. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696/220 "2008-01-09T00:18:42Z")
[QUOTE=Rubystreak] Don’t you think it’s a bit self-centered and imposing your standards on others to say how “weddings are supposed to be”? That’s how YOUR wedding was supposed to be. Other people’s should be how they want them. If your need to dress 100% as you please at all time trumps people’s desires for their wedding day, you definitely should stay home and ponder who exactly is being selfish in that situation. [/QUOTE] My guess: the operative statement was “We asked for nothing and imposed no conditions.” I suppose I’d make one small correction: “We ask for your company, and impose no conditions.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ack-what-to-do-when-your-so-belongs-in-etiquette-hell/432696.md?page=12)