# Acknowledged greats in the Arts that you "don't get" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acknowledged-greats-in-the-arts-that-you-dont-get/680367 "2014-02-02T19:01:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acknowledged-greats-in-the-arts-that-you-dont-get/680367/141 "2014-02-10T03:57:14Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Two points: > > - with the Dead, I’ve come to believe that there is a “sense of community” about the band and the fans that it provides a level of joy I don’t tap into. > - there’s a big difference taking some absolute stand: The Dead are Bad vs. framing things from the standpoint of “look, they aren’t for me - I can articulate why, clearly, but won’t do so here…” type of responses… Did you ever see the Dead in concert? Like I said, a GD concert was phantasmagorical. Their recordings are, with two exceptions, meh. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acknowledged-greats-in-the-arts-that-you-dont-get/680367/142 "2014-02-10T11:45:09Z")
> [@steveroo](#): > > This isn’t an “outlier” opinion at all. I’ve spent most of my life in or around the classical music community, and the consensus is that West Side Story is a masterpiece, Candide and Wonderful Town are pretty good, and the rest of it ranges from “meh” to awful. His “serious” compositions were performed and recorded because he was a celebrity. You rarely hear of orchestras performing his symphonies now that he’s dead. The problem with the symphonies is less that the music is bad (it isn’t) and more that they’re riddled with angsty self-flagellating twaddle. Symphony No. 2 “The Age of Anxiety” is a musical setting of a Auden text about alienation in the modern world and Symphony No. 3 “Kaddish” is Bernstein railing against God, but they both get deeply awkward in places (for those not familiar with the latter work there is narration throughout and some chorus) and are very much of their time. His “Mass” (which is a theatre piece and not a Mass) is a far better manifestation of the same concepts and deservedly gets performed more (I recommend it if you don’t know it - the music is really very good). I disagree that Bernstein’s works were performed just because he was a “celebrity”; they got performed because he was a talented composer. A lot of them have dated badly (most notably the above symphonies) but that’s true of many composers. _Prelude, Fugue and Riffs_ was groundbreaking but any performance today is going to sound old-fashioned (and be overshadowed by Benny Goodman’s performance - not that another clarinetist couldn’t play it well, but there will always be a comparison). As for his other works of note, let’s not forget the excellent _On The Town_ and music for _On The Waterfront_. _Fancy Free_ still gets done on occasion (both the ballet and the orchestral variations). And _Chichester Psalms_ is a solid part of the choral repertoire that gets performed several times a year. Bernstein of course also gets rated highly for his conducting (particularly Mahler) and his advocacy of classical music to the general populace via the new and exciting medium of television. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acknowledged-greats-in-the-arts-that-you-dont-get/680367/143 "2014-02-10T11:45:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Did you ever see the Dead in concert? > > Like I said, a GD concert was phantasmagorical. Their recordings are, with two exceptions, meh. Yes - Shoreline Amphitheater with Bruce Hornsby on keys. Backstage passes. It’s what led me to appreciate the whole community aspect. ---
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acknowledged-greats-in-the-arts-that-you-dont-get/680367/144 "2014-02-10T12:30:34Z")
> [@davidw](#): > > Kanye West. > > I’m a huge hip hop fan, have been almost my whole life. I loved Kanye’s first album (College Dropout), thought his second album was even better (Late Registration) and liked the third (Graduation). And I also loved the production work he did for other artists. > > But everything after that, when all the critics began proclaiming him a genius, sounds awful to me. 808 & Heartbreaks, My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, Watch the Throne, Yeezus, I think they’re all garbage. He was much better before he became a “genius.” Every single word of this. Kanye was a marginal lyricist from the jump. But you lived with it because the music was so good. I don’t mind him experimenting more now with his sound, but his lyrics have deteriorated terribly. To the point that I can no longer live with it. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acknowledged-greats-in-the-arts-that-you-dont-get/680367/145 "2014-02-10T13:05:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not SciFi, “The Handmaid’s Tale” is (blurg, ecch, gag) "_speculative fiction"_. :rolleyes: > _And_ it’s crap. **AND** it’s propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acknowledged-greats-in-the-arts-that-you-dont-get/680367/146 "2014-02-10T13:42:20Z")
‘Ulysses’ by James Joyce, read it recently expecting a masterpiece but actually as Father Dougal would put it, “Its a big load of bollocks, Ted” Stream of conciousness, do other people actually think like that or is it another made up ‘fact’ like men supposedly thinking about sex every five seconds _(or whatever ludicrously low number its supposed to be)_. Most modern art, note I said ‘most’ as some really is mind-blowingly fantastic, but the other 99% is absolutely boring, obvious and pretentious nonsense for people with too much money and time on their hands trying to impress other people with too much money and time on their hands. Its the biggest confidence trick in history. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acknowledged-greats-in-the-arts-that-you-dont-get/680367/147 "2014-02-10T21:49:45Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > As for his other works of note, let’s not forget the excellent _On The Town_ and music for _On The Waterfront_. Yes, I definitely should have mentioned _On the Town_. My bad. _On the Waterfront_ is also great, and shows that Bernstein easily could have had a stellar career in film music if he had wanted one. Just to clarify, let me say that I do think there’s a lot of good stuff among Bernstein’s “serious” output (such as the clarinet sonata, which I’ve performed). HOWEVER. The subject of this thread is “Acknowledged greats in the Arts that you ‘don’t get,’” which implies some divergence from popular opinion. People upthread have mentioned disliking Mozart and Shakespeare; I hear that and I think “Whoa, really? What’s wrong with you?” But there’s nothing particularly controversial or contrarian about **panache45** not liking Leonard Bernstein’s non-Broadway compositions. I’ve heard similar sentiments many times. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acknowledged-greats-in-the-arts-that-you-dont-get/680367/148 "2014-02-10T22:00:43Z")
Oh, I thought of another one. Jack Kerouac’s _On the Road_. I read it during my exploratory, globetrotting, wandering phase of my early 20s and was absolutely bored by it. Tried it a second time a few years later. Couldn’t get past about thirty pages or so. I really am having difficulty understanding what people see in this book. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acknowledged-greats-in-the-arts-that-you-dont-get/680367/149 "2014-02-11T01:28:11Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > This thread seems to have morphed - it is more “here’s artists I don’t like” not “I don’t get them” - subtle but important… Agreed. For example, I appreciate and respect Mozart’s genius, but he just doesn’t float my boat. On the other hand, I’ve always felt that Jimi Hendrix is absurdly overrated, a performer who was wonderful to _watch_ but an underwhelming guitarist to listen to. The one who puzzles me is Bob Dylan. I don’t consider him a musician, and his prose/poetry/commentary/lyrics (or whatever it is) does nothing for me. I just don’t get him, but wonder if there’s anything _to_ get. > [@pulykamell](#): > > Oh, I thought of another one. Jack Kerouac’s _On the Road_. I read it during my exploratory, globetrotting, wandering phase of my early 20s and was absolutely bored by it. Tried it a second time a few years later. Couldn’t get past about thirty pages or so. I really am having difficulty understanding what people see in this book. I think it was Truman Capote said of _On The Road_: “It’s not writing, it’s _typing_.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acknowledged-greats-in-the-arts-that-you-dont-get/680367/150 "2014-02-11T02:30:50Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > Agreed. For example, I appreciate and respect Mozart’s genius, but he just doesn’t float my boat. > On the other hand, I’ve always felt that Jimi Hendrix is absurdly overrated, a performer who was wonderful to _watch_ but an underwhelming guitarist to listen to. > The one who puzzles me is Bob Dylan. I don’t consider him a musician, and his prose/poetry/commentary/lyrics (or whatever it is) does nothing for me. I just don’t get him, but wonder if there’s anything _to_ get. Yeah, Hendrix is one I _love_ and is incredible to listen to (so, counter to your opinion), but I can get with you about Dylan. He’s _never_ done anything for me, and I just don’t understand why he’s so revered. > [@](#): > > I think it was Truman Capote said of _On The Road_: “It’s not writing, it’s _typing_.” Yep…that’s exactly how I felt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acknowledged-greats-in-the-arts-that-you-dont-get/680367.md?page=7)