# ACLU obtains "Presidential Advance Manual" -- "rally squads" to drown out protesters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2007, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975 "2007-06-29T21:41:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975/1 "2007-06-29T21:41:39Z")
Story [here](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/06/29/BL2007062901157_5.html). (Scroll down to “Denver Three Watch.”) Redacted version of manual [here](http://www.aclu.org/pdfs/freespeech/presidential_advance_manual.pdf) (pdf file; scroll down to pp. 32-35 – or US 17 - US 20). In a way this, while raised in connection with an ongoing court case, is old news because the manual in question is from October 2002 – but it raises the obvious question of what sort of “Advance Manual” they’re using **now.** Did any previous administration do this sort of thing? (Not a rhetorical question, I’m genuinely curious.) ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975/2 "2007-06-29T21:49:02Z")
What the fresh hell are you going on about/ _ **Summarize** _, man! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sofaspud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8491ac/32.png) [@Sofaspud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofaspud)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975/3 "2007-06-29T21:56:27Z")
Wait – are you pitting Bush, the people suing, the ACLU, or all three? 'cause I could get on board, maybe, depending. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975/4 "2007-06-29T22:00:28Z")
[QUOTE=Sofaspud] Wait – are you pitting Bush, the people suing, the ACLU, or all three? 'cause I could get on board, maybe, depending. [/QUOTE] I’m Pitting whoever wrote the Presidential Advance Manual and whoever applied its tactics in the field. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975/5 "2007-06-29T22:03:33Z")
[QUOTE=Sofaspud] Wait – are you pitting Bush, the people suing, the ACLU, or all three? 'cause I could get on board, maybe, depending. [/QUOTE] I’m Pitting whoever wrote the Presidential Advance Manual and whoever applied its tactics in the field. Context is the blurb from the WaPo story linked in the OP: > [@](#): > > **Denver Three Watch** > > Ann Imse writes in the Rocky Mountain News: "Two people ejected from a Bush speech in Denver over a bumper sticker have filed a second lawsuit, claiming a White House manual unlawfully bars potential critics of the president from public events. > > “The Presidential Advance Manual calls for Bush volunteers to distribute tickets in a manner to deter protesters and to stop demonstrators from entering. It also calls for ‘rally squads’ to drown out demonstrators and get between them and news cameras. The manual was obtained through a deposition in a West Virginia case.” > > The ACLU has Web-published a heavily redacted but nevertheless fascinating copy of that official White House Presidential Advance Manual. We’ve always **known** they pull this shit, but this proves it’s a matter of express (though not published) policy. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975/6 "2007-06-29T22:05:59Z")
This is unlawful, immoral or wrong _how_? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975/7 "2007-06-29T22:09:33Z")
I’m unclear how this event was “taxpayer financed”. And if tickets are required, how is it a “public event”? I don’t necessarily agree with this policy, but it’s unclear that they have a legal case. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975/8 "2007-06-29T22:16:26Z")
They had tickets, and a person of undefined provinence forcibly removed them due to a “No Blood for Oil” bumpersticker. story here [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/21/AR2005062101583.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/21/AR2005062101583.html) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975/9 "2007-06-29T22:38:40Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] This is unlawful, immoral or wrong _how_? [/QUOTE] Assuming you meant that seriously (hard as that is to believe): For one thing, it’s fundamentally dishonest, in the same sense that an [astroturf organization](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing) is dishonest. These “rally squads” were to be deployed to give the false impression that grassroots support for the president was just as loud and just as widespread as opposition to him; the careful distribution of event tickets to Bush supporters was, likewise, designed to falsely inflate his popularity and suppress even the appearance of dissent. For another thing, it’s bad in a civic sense, just as the sequestered [“Free Speech Zones”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zones) are bad, and I **hope** you don’t need anyone to explain why. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975/10 "2007-06-29T22:49:50Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Assuming you meant that seriously (hard as that is to believe): For one thing, it’s fundamentally dishonest, in the same sense that an [astroturf organization](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing) is dishonest. These “rally squads” were to be deployed to give the false impression that grassroots support for the president was just as loud and just as widespread as opposition to him; the careful distribution of event tickets to Bush supporters was, likewise, designed to falsely inflate his popularity and suppress even the appearance of dissent. For another thing, it’s bad in a civic sense, just as the sequestered [“Free Speech Zones”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zones) are bad, and I **hope** you don’t need anyone to explain why. [/QUOTE] Well, yeah, but doesn’t it make sense that the President would want to give the impression that he’s popular and supress the appearance of dissent? It would be really stupid PR for Bush (or anybody for that matter) not to do stuff like that. There’s no point in having a rally to make you look strong if you let the opposition disrupt it and make you look weak. You’d be better off just not doing it at all, then. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975/11 "2007-06-29T22:56:30Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Well, yeah, but doesn’t it make sense that the President would want to give the impression that he’s popular and supress the appearance of dissent? [/QUOTE] Of course it makes sense. There are a lot of things that make sense for a president to do which, for other reasons, a president very definitely should **not** do. This is one of them. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975/12 "2007-06-29T23:03:30Z")
So you’re saying Bush shouldn’t do what makes sense? I think he’s been a very good president by that standard. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975/13 "2007-06-29T23:06:10Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] So you’re saying Bush shouldn’t do what makes sense? [/QUOTE] [_sigh_] I’m saying he shouldn’t do (nor should people acting on his behalf do) dishonest and/or dissent-suppressive things to make himself look better. Of course, he wouldn’t be the first, which is why I posed the question in the OP: Have previous administrations stage-managed the president’s public appearances to this egregious a degree? (I wouldn’t be surprised if some have, but nor would I be surprised if the Bushies are breaking new ground here.) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975/14 "2007-06-29T23:09:07Z")
But you haven’t given any reasons that the President shouldn’t do it, other than that it’s “dishonest” and “bad in a civic sense”. This is advertising; it’s PR, and the goal is to look as good as you possibly can. So, I’m asking you, why shouldn’t the President do it? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975/15 "2007-06-29T23:10:21Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Of course it makes sense. There are a lot of things that make sense for a president to do which, for other reasons, a president very definitely should **not** do. This is one of them. [/QUOTE] Why? The miscreants are organized and they plan in advance how to try to make the President look bad, why is it bad for the President to have advance plans to counter them? You haven’t explained why the one is good and the other is bad. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975/16 "2007-06-29T23:11:09Z")
Geez, you rag on him when he does things that don’t make sense, then rag on him when he does things that \*do \* make sense. Poor guy can’t get a break! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975/17 "2007-06-29T23:14:28Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] Why? The miscreants are organized and they plan in advance how to try to make the President look bad, why is it bad for the President to have advance plans to counter them? You haven’t explained why the one is good and the other is bad. [/QUOTE] Miscreants? Excuse me? And about these “plans”, where do you get that? The article I cited speaks only of a bumper sticker on their car, have you some more extensive information, or did you just pull this out of your Nixon? ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975/18 "2007-06-29T23:23:24Z")
If this had only happened at GOP party functions, it would be legal, though somewhat unethical. However, the screening out of non-Publicans and the forcible moving of protesters to “free-speech zones” out of camera range happened at “public appearances”, too. Remember all those “town meetings” to promote Mr. Bush’s plans? They were scripted, and no dissenters were let in. When these events were shown on the news, reporters did not tell the viewers that the “town meetings” were no such thing. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975/19 "2007-06-29T23:25:48Z")
Right. Anti-Bush rallies just spring out of nowhere, once a single basher throws dragon teeth on soil. No organization whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975/20 "2007-06-29T23:26:47Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] But you haven’t given any reasons that the President shouldn’t do it, other than that it’s “dishonest” and “bad in a civic sense”. This is advertising; it’s PR, and the goal is to look as good as you possibly can. So, I’m asking you, why shouldn’t the President do it? [/QUOTE] Personally, I’d rather the president had other things on his mind when seeing protesters than “Hey. Those people are making me look bad. Get me some people to make me look good.” Plus it seems a bit too ministry of propaganda to me. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aclu-obtains-presidential-advance-manual-rally-squads-to-drown-out-protesters/409975.md?page=2)