# "ACORN did absolutely nothing wrong" no longer true **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 6, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467 "2011-04-06T23:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/1 "2011-04-06T23:23:17Z")
> [@ACORN "pimp" arrested for illegally accessing Senate office; tampering with phone system](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/613): > > ACORN did absolutely nothing wrong, and O’Keefe fabricated every single implication of it himself. [ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Registration Fraud in Nevada](http://buzz.yahoo.com/article/1:99d1febfbc0f579a6c3bb3559bbe7ace:a264097d3ace95bdae568d1b42ab37fc/Democratic-ACORN-Pleads-Guilty-to-Voter-Registration-Fraud-in-Nevada) ACORN itself, the organization, was named as a criminal defendant. Not its officers or its board… the corporate entity itself was charged with criminal conduct and has pled guilty. > [@](#): > > The defunct political advocacy group ACORN has pleaded guilty to one count of an election law violation in Las Vegas, Nevada. > > ACORN attorney Lisa Rasmussen told Fox News that a plea agreement was worked out with the state attorney general. The violation was for unlawfully providing compensation for registering voters based on the total number of people registered. Sentencing for the organization is set for Aug. 10, and the potential fine is a maximum of $5,000. > > ACORN itself was named as a criminal defendant in the case for allegedly running an illegal voter registration scheme called “21,” or “Blackjack,” which paid ACORN workersarned bonuses based on the number of voters they registered in Nevada during the 2008 election. No one can say any longer that “ACORN did absolutely nothing wrong, and O’Keefe fabricated every single implication of it himself.” ACORN has admitted guilt. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/2 "2011-04-06T23:25:40Z")
Congrats. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lurker\_Above](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/3 "2011-04-06T23:31:33Z")
“The defunct political advocacy group ACORN…” Silly question from a foreigner. How can a defunct group be a defendant in a criminal case? Do they round up the last few people to leave/quit and make them sit through the trial? And while I can see the point to criminalizing paying bonuses for registrations it seems odd to call that voter registration fraud. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/4 "2011-04-06T23:35:25Z")
Well, _my_ nose certainly feels rubbed in it. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/5 "2011-04-06T23:41:31Z")
You’re better than this, Bricker. You really are. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/6 "2011-04-06T23:44:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No one can say any longer that “ACORN did absolutely nothing wrong, and O’Keefe fabricated every single implication of it himself.” ACORN has admitted guilt. Call me back when they plead guilty to pimping teenage prostitutes. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/7 "2011-04-06T23:44:45Z")
> [@](#): > > The violation was for unlawfully providing compensation for registering voters based on the total number of people registered. Sentencing for the organization is set for Aug. 10, and the potential fine is a maximum of $5,000. Honestly, words fail. You must be very proud of your “victory”. :rolleyes: I was going to say that you’re better than this, **Bricker** , but I see that \*\*samclem \*\*has beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/8 "2011-04-06T23:46:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No one can say any longer that “ACORN did absolutely nothing wrong, and O’Keefe fabricated every single implication of it himself.” ACORN has admitted guilt. Are you claiming that O’Keefe _didn’t_ fabricate evidence, and that ACORN admitted guilt to claims he made? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/9 "2011-04-06T23:47:32Z")
A rather pathetic little hill to stake your flag on. Was it worth it? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/10 "2011-04-06T23:53:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are you claiming that O’Keefe _didn’t_ fabricate evidence, and that ACORN admitted guilt to claims he made? Well, technically O’Keefe didn’t “fabricate” anything, but the videos were grossly misleading and did reveal some ACORN employees engaging in unprofessional behavior for which they were fired, however he certainly didn’t provide any compelling evidence of lawbreaking. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/11 "2011-04-06T23:56:07Z")
Out of curiosity, who decides whether a bankrupt organization spends money on defense or pays a fine? [Here’s](http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/may/04/criminal-charges-filed-against-acorn-two-employees/) a more complete news story, btw, from the date of the filing of the charges. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/12 "2011-04-06T23:59:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No one can say any longer that “ACORN did absolutely nothing wrong, and O’Keefe fabricated every single implication of it himself.” ACORN has admitted guilt. We can also never say “Bricker always starts thoughtful and interesting threads.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/13 "2011-04-07T00:06:32Z")
For the “You’re better than this” crowd: You folks (so far as I remember) stood by when “ACORN did nothing wrong!” was being trumpted. You didn’t step in to say, “Yeah, OK, ACORN did things wrong, but they didn’t do what O’Keefe accused them of.” You stood by and let ACORN discussion after ACORN discussion be ruled by the “Cite?” tactic: Look, obviously ACORN is not perfect. YES! THEY ARE! THEY DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG, EVER! Prove me wrong! Cite? Cite? Cite? Where were you when that tactic was being employed? Were you “better than that?” I love this place. Cite? Cite? Cite? OK, here’s a cite. Really, Bricker. Must you drag all this old history up? Must you gloat? Gee, Bricker, you’re better than this. Next time there’s a proposition in play for which everyone knows the truth, how about you step forward and say, “Yes, let’s be honest and admit it.” Because, really, I thought you were better than hanging back and not doing that. OK? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/14 "2011-04-07T00:08:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are you claiming that O’Keefe _didn’t_ fabricate evidence, and that ACORN admitted guilt to claims he made? No. I’m claiming that the statement, “ACORN did nothing wrong,” which was tossed up to derail every attempt to discuss things that ACORN did wrong, is no longer a defensible statement. Because, you see, they did. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/15 "2011-04-07T00:08:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > For the “You’re better than this” crowd: > > You folks (so far as I remember) stood by when “ACORN did nothing wrong!” was being trumpted. You didn’t step in to say, “Yeah, OK, ACORN did things wrong, but they didn’t do what O’Keefe accused them of.” You stood by and let ACORN discussion after ACORN discussion be ruled by the “Cite?” tactic: > > Look, obviously ACORN is not perfect. > > YES! THEY ARE! THEY DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG, EVER! Prove me wrong! Cite? Cite? Cite? > > Where were you when that tactic was being employed? Were you “better than that?” > > I love this place. > > Cite? Cite? Cite? > > OK, here’s a cite. > > Really, Bricker. Must you drag all this old history up? Must you gloat? Gee, Bricker, you’re better than this. > > Next time there’s a proposition in play for which everyone knows the truth, how about you step forward and say, “Yes, let’s be honest and admit it.” Because, really, I thought you were better than hanging back and not doing that. > > OK? …did you mean to post this in the pit? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/16 "2011-04-07T00:14:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. I’m claiming that the statement, “ACORN did nothing wrong,” which was tossed up to derail every attempt to discuss things that ACORN did wrong, is no longer a defensible statement. > > Because, you see, they did. Pardon me for not knowing the history behind this, but were the statements “ACORN did nothing wrong” in reference to a particular incident or were they, as you imply here, intended to convey that the organization as a whole is as white as the driven snow and as pure as the Virgin Mary in every single action ever taken by each and every person in their employ? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/17 "2011-04-07T00:15:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Next time there’s a proposition in play for which everyone knows the truth, how about you step forward and say, “Yes, let’s be honest and admit it.” Because, really, I thought you were better than hanging back and not doing that. To the best of my rememberance, I caught flak from some of my fellow lefties because I did admit that ACORN had problems on its voter registration side. Also to the best of my rememberance, O’Keefe’s highly edited sting (which was, one would hope you could admit, edited to the point of not being true) did not address that issue, but instead addressed the pimping of teenage prostititutes and the murdering of husbands and the like. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/18 "2011-04-07T00:22:35Z")
I think it’s fair to interpret those who were saying “ACORN did nothing wrong,” as saying that ACORN never encouraged voter fraud. So this case does disprove that proposition, insofar as this Nevada field organizer paid his canvassers in such a way as to incentivize fraud, with the knowledge of the higher-ups, according to the criminal complaint. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/19 "2011-04-07T00:24:54Z")
So, uh, congratulations… I guess… on getting a cite on some ACORN wrongdoing. Of course, 'near as I can tell, this has absolutely diddly-squat to do with O’Keefe. Why isn’t this in the Pit? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/20 "2011-04-07T00:28:22Z")
I fail to see the wrongdoing. Some day laborors tried to cheat ACORN. ACORN was the victim. ACORN still did absolutely nothing wrong. Sorry, but that remains a fact. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467.md?page=2)