# "ACORN did absolutely nothing wrong" no longer true **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 6, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467 "2011-04-06T23:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/221 "2011-04-07T16:01:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Seriously? > > This doesn’t strike you as a bit desperate? > > The news story says, “..and other members of the team.” The director pleaded guilty. The organization pleaded guilty. Guilty, yes..but of what? Once again you seem to be deliberately conflating what the prosucutors claimed and what the administrator plead guilty of. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/222 "2011-04-07T16:03:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But I base my statement on the fact that ACORN submitted fraudulent voter registration forms. > > Are you going to claim that ACORN didn’t do that? ACORN was obligated by law to submit them. It did not have a legal option of culling them. If they had tried to remove the farudulent ones, they would have been violating the law and doing something “wrong.” All they could legally do was flag them as suspicious, which they did. No fraud. No attempt at fraud. Just following the letter of the law. What this office pled guilty to had nothing to do with voter registration fraud, but with how they paid canvassers. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/223 "2011-04-07T16:03:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yes, but those people weren’t named in the article you cited, and it didn’t say the same registrant found all of them, etc. Plus, some of the Cowboys probably actually live in Nevada. 😉 That’s true. So what do you think happened here? I am willing to track this information down, but I have a funny feeling that the response is going to be, “Geeze, Bricker, get a life.” And it WON’T be, “OK, I admit it; ACORN submitted fradulent coter registrations.” Am I wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/224 "2011-04-07T16:05:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > ACORN was obligated by law to submit them. It did not have a legal option of culling them. If they had tried to remove the farudulent ones, they would have been violating the law and doing something “wrong.” Cite? And would it, in fact, have been wrong to just throw out a registration for, say, Mickey Mouse? Not legal or illegal, but in Dio-tongue, “wrong?” ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/225 "2011-04-07T16:05:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They are guilty of what? You know this is pathetic. ACORN did nothing wrong. I will still say that straight out and still be right. You are wrong and a lying piece of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/226 "2011-04-07T16:06:15Z")
ACORN was not allowed by law to do anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/227 "2011-04-07T16:06:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I can’t decide if it’s stupidity with you, or something more malevolent. With you, **Bricker** , I know someone has caught you out on your bullshit when you resort to personal attacks. Gives me warm fuzzies to see it. > [@](#): > > 1. I never saw the post. And your evidence to the contrary is that I must have seen it, because I posted later in the thread. Not that I quoted it, refererred to it in any way, hinted at it, joked about it, or anything except that after it was posted, I posted. Genius. I suppose you’re willing to hold yourself to that same rule? You agree you’ve read every post in every thread subsequent to a post of yours? Really? So, ignoring something is the measure? You who were participating vigorously in the thread, you who was debating Scalia’s originalism vs. textualism with me in that thread, you who responded to a different post I made in that thread as well as responded to other people after my cite, you who are known for thoroughness and attention to detail. Reagan claimed to have forgotten things too. No one believes it. People can sit in court and claim ignorance, they can still be found guilty. Preponderance of the evidence. I am content to let the readers here be the judge of your convenient lapse. > [@](#): > > 1. Even if I had seen the post, I don’t agree I was wrong. I didn’t say Scalia was not an originalist, did I? Discussing the particular decision process, I said he was using the principles of textualism. The two schools are not mutally exclusive. Nice of you to point out now. I am sure this is not something you just learned in the last three months. I made my case for his originalism in that thread, you claimed textualism. This would seem to have been a salient point to make in that thread. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/228 "2011-04-07T16:06:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And it WON’T be, “OK, I admit it; ACORN submitted fradulent coter registrations.” > > Am I wrong? But _ **neither did ACORN plead guilty to submitting fraudulent voter registrations** _. Am _ **I** _ wrong? What the fuck is the point of this thread, if you apparently can’t even understand what law ACORN pled guilty to violating? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/229 "2011-04-07T16:07:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Seriously? > > This doesn’t strike you as a bit desperate? > > The news story says, “..and other members of the team.” The director pleaded guilty. The organization pleaded guilty. > > But you need to reserve judgement to see what other team members names were used and decide only then? > > So before I go hunt this down… this will do it for you? If I come back with the information that ACORN submitted registrations in Nevada from one worker for Tony Romo, Kevin Ogletree, Brandon Williams, and David Buehler, you’ll say… what? As **Czarcasm** wonders, it appears to me that you are asserting that these were the names on the list. What if it were Tony Romo, Roy Williams, Sean Lee and Mike Jenkins? And where is it said that the director and the organization pleaded guilty to anything that relates to Tony Romo’s name? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/230 "2011-04-07T16:08:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s true. > > So what do you think happened here? > > I am willing to track this information down, but I have a funny feeling that the response is going to be, “Geeze, Bricker, get a life.” > > And it WON’T be, “OK, I admit it; ACORN submitted fradulent coter registrations.” > > Am I wrong? You’re flitting again. The thing that ACORN plead guilty to was NOT “submitting fraudulent voter registrations”. It was paying people according to the number of voter registrations submitted. That some of those voter registrations were fraudulent was not something that ACORN could do anything about other than flagging them as suspicious. BY LAW, all voter registrations have to be submitted to the state by the organization collecting them. ACORN could not make a determination of which registrations were frauds, even if it were obvious (“Mickey Mouse”, “Donald Duck”, “Adolf Hitler”). That would be illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/231 "2011-04-07T16:08:25Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Nice of you to point out now. I am sure this is not something you just learned in the last three months. I made my case for his originalism in that thread, you claimed textualism. This would seem to have been a salient point to make in that thread. Yes, I surely would have said something similar in that thread. If I had seen your posts. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/232 "2011-04-07T16:08:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s true. > > So what do you think happened here? > > I am willing to track this information down, but I have a funny feeling that the response is going to be, “Geeze, Bricker, get a life.” > > And it WON’T be, “OK, I admit it; ACORN submitted fradulent coter registrations.” > > Am I wrong? Gee, since you’d rather not bother we’ll never know…which allows you to play your “I could do this, but you’d only(fill in the blank), so I’m not gonna!” game. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/233 "2011-04-07T16:08:55Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > …the law is the handjob of justice. Can I steal this? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/234 "2011-04-07T16:10:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, I surely would have said something similar in that thread. > > If I had seen your posts. You did respond to me on that topic. Several times in fact. That point could have been made in any of them. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/235 "2011-04-07T16:11:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Cite? > > And would it, in fact, have been wrong to just throw out a registration for, say, Mickey Mouse? Not legal or illegal, but in Dio-tongue, “wrong?” Could you please cite? I mean, when you take on these issues, you adopt the tone of an expert on, in this case, Nevada law regarding voter registration. Previously it was Georgia law regarding the investigation of homicides, for instance. So I kind of expect you to be able to respond more thoroughly than “cite”? Otherwise, it would be nice if you could tone down the expert attitude, if of course your expertise comes from reading online as to what Nevada’s voter registration laws are or what Georgia’s homicide investigation protocols are. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/236 "2011-04-07T16:12:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Cite? > > And would it, in fact, have been wrong to just throw out a registration for, say, Mickey Mouse? Not legal or illegal, but in Dio-tongue, “wrong?” Are you fucking kidding me? We went over this countless times two years ago. This is really news to you? ACORN was not legally allowed to make determinations as to whether registrations were legitimate or not. All they were allowed tp do was flag the “Micky Mouse” forms as supicious (which they did) and submit thm. They had no legal option to do anything else. This is really the first you’re hearing of this? Before I go digging up cites, I want to know if it’s going to make any difference to you. What are you going to say if I can prove to you that ACORN was obligated by federal law to submit all registrations, no matter how suspicious? Are you going to alter anything you’re saying about ACORN doing anything “wronbg?” Are you going to drop your insinuations that ACORN was deliberately involved in registration fraud? Are you not aware that ACORN flagged the forms as suspicious itself? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/237 "2011-04-07T16:13:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s true. > > So what do you think happened here? > > I am willing to track this information down, but I have a funny feeling that the response is going to be, “Geeze, Bricker, get a life.” > > And it WON’T be, “OK, I admit it; ACORN submitted fradulent coter registrations.” > > Am I wrong? At best you are _half_ right-they were _required_ to submit those voter registrations without altering them, whether they were fraudulent or not. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/238 "2011-04-07T16:13:30Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > You’re flitting again. The thing that ACORN plead guilty to was NOT “submitting fraudulent voter registrations”. It was paying people according to the number of voter registrations submitted. I agree. I said exactly that in response to **Gadarene**. I’m saying that “ACORN submitted fradulent voter registrations” is something that a reasonable debater ought to concede here, even though they didn’t plead guilty to doing it, because every grownup knows they did it. I’m saying that if you insist on a cite before conceding this point, that’s your privilege, but youy can’t argue that way and expect me to graciously concede “everybody knows” points on my side. > [@](#): > > That some of those voter registrations were fraudulent was not something that ACORN could do anything about other than flagging them as suspicious. BY LAW, all voter registrations have to be submitted to the state by the organization collecting them. ACORN could not make a determination of which registrations were frauds, even if it were obvious (“Mickey Mouse”, “Donald Duck”, “Adolf Hitler”). That would be illegal. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/239 "2011-04-07T16:14:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > At best you are _half_ right-they were _required_ to submit those voter registrations without altering them, whether they were fraudulent or not. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/240 "2011-04-07T16:15:46Z")
Before we dig up the cites, please tell us how you’re going to respond when we do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467.md?page=13)