# "ACORN did absolutely nothing wrong" no longer true **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 6, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467 "2011-04-06T23:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/361 "2011-04-07T19:20:21Z")
Bricker, What did you hope to achieve by this thread? I sure hope this back and forth nit-pickery fest wasn’t what you had in mind. Your current claims seem to indicate that you don’t think that these events really say anything about the morals ACORN as an organization. So it must have just been an attempt to prove that Diagonese spoke hyperbolically in a thread some 10 months ago and get him to admit it. Would the following set of responses achieved your goals? **Bricker:** Acorn pleads guilty to violating election law. See they sometimes can do wrong, unlike Diogenes claimed. \*\*Diogenes: \*\* OK they can make mistakes but that is small potatoes compared to what we were talking about in that thread, and so is largely irrelevant. Still I agree that I was technically wrong although I didn’t know it at the time since the charges hadn’t come out yet. **Bricker:** Good, so long as you agree that you misspoke and that like all other organizations ACORN isn’t 100% perfect 100% of the time I’m satisfied. Please close the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/362 "2011-04-07T19:23:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. I knew there had been an interview with Fox News. The text I pasted said, “ACORN attorney Lisa Rasmussen told Fox News that a plea agreement was worked out…” > > That doesn’t mean that the entire story comes from Fox News, does it? > > In fact, it seems to me to indicate that the rest of the story is being written by a third party. It seems to me that if that ran on Fox News, it would be more natural to say, “ACORN attorney Lisa Rasmussen said that a plea agreement was worked out…” So your contention now is that you somehow failed to see that right under the headline was the credit for **[nation.foxnews.com](http://nation.foxnews.com)**, and you also failed to see that after the story on yahoo.buzz cuts off mid-word with “The violation was for unlawfully providing compensation fo” it then says “Full story on [nation.foxnews.com](http://nation.foxnews.com)” and that somehow you got the rest of the text you quoted: > [@](#): > > r registering voters based on the total number of people registered. Sentencing for the organization is set for Aug. 10, and the potential fine is a maximum of $5,000. > > ACORN itself was named as a criminal defendant in the case for allegedly running an illegal voter registration scheme called “21,” or “Blackjack,” which paid ACORN workersarned bonuses based on the number of voters they registered in Nevada during the 2008 election. without clicking on the link thru to Fox News? Did I get that correct? You expect me (and everyone else) to believe that you failed to notice 2 links to Fox News, both highlighted in blue, and that you miraculously discerned the end of a sentence and another 60 or so words, including a typo from the Fox News article, without actually looking at the Fox News site? Is that your contention? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/363 "2011-04-07T19:24:30Z")
Well, [PAC endorsements](http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gGC7zm) should be an indicator for such a politically involved organization. [This is a report of donations made to the Obama campaign from the PAC. No other candidates were supported that year.](http://images.nictusa.com/pdf/263/28039941263/28039941263.pdf#navpanes=0) ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/364 "2011-04-07T19:25:03Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Would the following set of responses achieved your goals? You make it sound like it’s a small thing for **Dio** to admit he’s wrong. I can kind of understand **Bricker** ’s frustration; sometimes you just want that windmill to come down, and you think maybe this charge is the one to topple it. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/365 "2011-04-07T19:29:03Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I’m not so much helping you as making fun of **Whack-a-Mole** ’s notion that the laws against fraud are an onerous burden that evil conservatives use to keep people from voting. You have not shown that the laws the republicans push actually address issues of voter fraud. I know they say that is the reason but when asked to point out the rampant fraud that needs fixing none is to be found. The election funny business is perpetrated by the republicans: > [@](#): > > Preserving Democracy describes three phases of Republican chicanery: the run-up to the election, the election itself, and the post-election cover-up. The wrongs exposed are not mere dirty tricks (though Bush/Cheney also went in heavily for those) but specific violations of the U.S. and Ohio constitutions, the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act of 1968, the National Voter Registration Act, and the Help America Vote Act. Although Conyers trod carefully when the report came out, insisting that the crimes did not affect the outcome of the race (a point he had to make, he told me, “just to get a hearing”), his report does “raise grave doubts regarding whether it can be said that the Ohio electors selected on December 13, 2004, were chosen in a manner that conforms to Ohio law, let alone Federal requirements and constitutional standards.” The report cites “massive and unprecedented voter irregularities and anomalies” throughout the state—wrongs, moreover, that were hardly random accidents. “In many cases,” the report says, “these irregularities were caused by intentional misconduct and illegal behavior, much of it involving Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell, the co-chair of the Bush-Cheney campaign in Ohio.” > > SOURCE: [http://harpers.org/archive/2005/08/0080696](http://harpers.org/archive/2005/08/0080696) ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/366 "2011-04-07T19:30:59Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Would the following set of responses achieved your goals? You forgot the part where **Bricker** polished off his monocle and partook in a pleasant, afternoon constitutional. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/367 "2011-04-07T19:36:41Z")
Oh, **hell** , Dio, they’re partisan as all get out! They’re fighting for truth, justice, and the American way, and God bless 'em! “Non-partisan” has become a buzz-word for people who can’t be bothered to make up their minds, and would like to credit themselves with being smarter because of it. “But you and I, we’ve been through that, and this is not our fate. So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late…” St. Robert of Hibbing ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/368 "2011-04-07T20:04:05Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > You’re better than this, Bricker. You really are. Whatever gave you that idea? **Bricker** lives for these sorts of petty “victories”. > [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > But I don’t think this thread was started because of the larger issue of blameworthiness, but rather as a direct fuck-you to **Diogenes** et al on a very narrow issue - that a few people a long time ago spoke more broadly than was warranted about whether ACORN did anything wrong. On that issue, **Bricker** is right, and I can’t for the life of me imagine why anybody would engage him on those grounds rather than just giving him that tiny, tiny victory, and letting the simple fact that he’s asserting it be a statement in its own right. This really is one of the all-time universal piss-soakings I’ve seen around here. Congratulations, everyone. We’re all losers here. Right on the money. **Bricker’s** looking to score cheap points and a few posters will do anything to not let him have those points, feeding the fire. Clearly ACORN was wrong. Clearly ACORN’s policy of paying for registrations was a poor one whether they were in violation of the law (a seemingly reasonable one) or not. Of course, the fraud that this leads to isn’t voter fraud. The party that was sinned against ACORN (who wants to pay for fakes?), but that’s their own fault. It’s not like any of those fraudulent registrations were going to turn into actual votes. But that’s not important when you can score cheap points against people like **Dio**. Big win! Let **Bricker** have his crumbs. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/369 "2011-04-07T20:21:08Z")
ACORN had 30,000 employees.Some of the subgroups instituted a policy that a person had to sign up 20 people a day. A few employees faked registrations to keep their jobs. To BRICKER that proves the whole organization is corrupt. I suppose with all the corrupt lawyers, he thinks the ABA should be abolished. With doctors defrauding medicare, they are proving the AMA is deserving to be ended. The Catholic Church covered up priests molesting kids. I guess that proves corruption and the church should be abolished. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/370 "2011-04-07T20:25:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Quote the exact words that were a lie, or admit you yourself or a liar. Like I said, your spelling gets worse in robot mode. Why do you think that is? You say the same things over and over again. I would have thought you would find it easier to spell, instead of harder. Maybe you should try cutting and pasting the previous lie. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/371 "2011-04-07T20:30:49Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > You have not shown that the laws the republicans push actually address issues of voter fraud. Don’t try to change the subject. You said something really stupid, that laws against fraud were an onerous burden imposed on the poor by conservatives to prevent them from voting for liberals. Diogenes is the one calling you a right-wing retard. Go jerk off on him. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/372 "2011-04-07T20:31:56Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > …Big win! > > Let **Bricker** have his crumbs. This was a triumph. I’m making a note here: HUGE SUCCESS. It’s hard to overstate my satisfaction… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/373 "2011-04-07T20:37:37Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > Wh…Clearly ACORN was wrong. Clearly ACORN’s policy of paying for registrations was a poor one whether they were in violation of the law (a seemingly reasonable one) or not… Well, I dunno. A bit of a bind, isn’t it? You can pay people to go and canvass for new registrations, but you cannot incentivize for production. Does that mean that their goal of 20 per day was also illegal, that they were legally bound to pay people for their time even if they made no effort at all? Could be viewed that way, couldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/374 "2011-04-07T20:45:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, I dunno. A bit of a bind, isn’t it? You can pay people to go and canvass for new registrations, but you cannot incentivize for production. Does that mean that their goal of 20 per day was also illegal, that they were legally bound to pay people for their time even if they made no effort at all? Could be viewed that way, couldn’t it? Maybe Brickeritis is contagious. You really want to resort to picking the most minute nits and debating the meaning of “based upon”? Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/375 "2011-04-07T20:47:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You said something really stupid, that laws against fraud were an onerous burden imposed on the poor by conservatives to prevent them from voting for liberals. I said that? Where did I say that? Go look again…I’ll wait. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/376 "2011-04-07T20:52:22Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Maybe Brickeritis is contagious. You really want to resort to picking the most minute nits and debating the meaning of “based upon”? Good luck with that. I have plenty of people at hand to point out my character flaws, perhaps you could just tell me where I’m wrong? Plus, the quote marks around “based upon” ? Huh? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/377 "2011-04-07T20:54:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, and if someone had monomaniacally insisted that OJ had never broken a single law, that speeding ticket story would be a relevant rebuttal, wouldn’t it? This is either a strawman or, as I’m guessing from reading more of this thread, you’re trying to jab at **Dio**. Who is, for all intents and purposes, a walking strawman, because his positions on certain things are so ridiculous and exagerrated that no reasonable human being could possibly hold them. So. Nobody\* thinks that ACORN is a perfect organization composed of beings of pure light and powdered sugar. The debate around ACORN has been about serious allegations such as registration fraud, supporting prostitution, etc. And along you come with a news story that is (a) completely inaccurately and misleadingly stated and (b) irrelevant to any of the previous serious accusations leveled against the organization. They broke a law that is in place in this particular state; their actions wouldn’t have even been illegal if they’d been in some other places in the U.S. \*Where “anybody” is understood to mean “any reasonably intelligent person who isn’t mulishly stubborn to the extent of rejecting all concrete evidence that disagrees with the worldview they’ve established.” > [@Shodan](#): > > Look, everybody who wasn’t a complete partisan moron has known for years that ACORN is an organization who is willing to break the law and commit morally reprehensible acts for the partisan advantage of the left wing. it’s obvious. It was obvious when they got caught covering up bribery, it was obvious when they got caught assisting pimps, it was obvious when they got caught committing registration fraud, it is obvious now that they have been convicted as a group. I was going to congratulate you on an excellent parody post, and then I realized you were serious. Hah! Poe’s Law strikes again. > [@Bricker](#): > > I wasn’t trying to say that O’keefe was right, that they supported prostitution, or any of that crap. But I think when people see what looks like an attack on ACORN, they read all that into it. You posted a misleading story about a single violation of a law that isn’t universal to all states in the U.S. If you weren’t intended to legitimate the other accusations, how is this possibly relevant? Frother: “John Doe is a rapist murderer!” Defender: “Well, actually, fifty people and the queen of England saw him halfway across the world the day that murder took place. And he’s a trans man, so he can’t ejaculate semen, which was found on the body.” Shit-stirrer: “Hey, check this out–you can’t say he’s innocent! \” Guess who you are in that little dialogue! > [@Bricker](#): > > When they create a compensation that actually invites fraud, incentivizes fraud, that’s when I feel they can be considered responsible. As observed, the compensation also incentivizes scrutiny of the registration forms so that people aren’t being compensated for bogus registrations. Also, again, this activity is perfectly legal in other states. So do you think it’s “right” there but “wrong” in Nevada? > [@Shodan](#): > > Like I said, earlier, if this were a Republican organization, all the Usual Suspects would instantly flip-flop. This would be a huge deal, it would be put forward as absolute proof that Republicans are evil, and anyone who said they didn’t do anything wrong would be attacked continuously in every forum. Because this is a nonpartisan organization that tends to benefit Democratic candidates more than Republican ones, all the Usual Shitbrains are raping babies and using their blood in Satanic rituals to kill President Obama so they can put Cheney in the White House. Wheeee, crazy accusations with no basis in fact are fun! > [@Bricker](#): > > Accepting that as true, I guess I should learn to take much greater care in crafting an OP. No shit? > [@Bricker](#): > > No. I knew there had been an interview with Fox News. The text I pasted said, “ACORN attorney Lisa Rasmussen told Fox News that a plea agreement was worked out…” > > That doesn’t mean that the entire story comes from Fox News, does it? Do you read or the news? Like, _ever_? “Person told [name of reporting organization]” is very, \*very \*standard phrasing in journalism. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > I don’t suppose asking you to grow the fuck up would do any good? [Nnnnnnnnnnnope.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQkxJ4WcXjA) > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Did I get that correct? You expect me (and everyone else) to believe that you failed to notice 2 links to Fox News, both highlighted in blue, and that you miraculously discerned the end of a sentence and another 60 or so words, including a typo from the Fox News article, without actually looking at the Fox News site? Is that your contention? Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurn. > [@elucidator](#): > > This was a triumph. > I’m making a note here: HUGE SUCCESS. > It’s hard to overstate my satisfaction… We do what we must, because we can. For the good of all of us. Except the ones who are dead. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/378 "2011-04-07T20:58:26Z")
I’ve read five pages to get caught up, and I see that the thread has progressed little further from where I left it last night. I’ve only one comment to add: > [@Shodan](#): > > … it was obvious when they got caught assisting pimps, … **Shodan** , if you believe this, you’re a moron. If you don’t believe it, you’re propogating a lie simply because it serves your political interests. Neither is a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/379 "2011-04-07T21:04:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I have plenty of people at hand to point out my character flaws, perhaps you could just tell me where I’m wrong? You’re wrong because setting a “goal” isn’t illegal, paying people per registration (or paying extra for registrations above a certain number, as ACORN pleaded guilty to) is illegal. If people don’t get paid if they don’t hit the goal of 20, that’s illegal. Saying “hey, we’d like you to get 20, but you’ll get paid the same if you don’t” not illegal. But, once again, this kind of semantic nitpicking is something I would expect from Bricker, not you. You always struck me as a bigger picture guy. > [@elucidator](#): > > Plus, the quote marks around “based upon” ? Huh? It’s from the statute that ACORN pleaded guilty to violating. " It is unlawful for a person to provide compensation for registering voters that is based upon: (a) The total number of voters a person registers; or (b) The total number of voters a person registers in a particular political party." ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/380 "2011-04-07T21:27:54Z")
Anyone who claims ACORN is “non-partisan” is a liar, a moron, or both. It’s “non-partisan” in the way that The Club For Growth and The Christian Coalition are “non-partisan”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467.md?page=20)