# "ACORN did absolutely nothing wrong" no longer true **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 6, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467 "2011-04-06T23:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/421 "2011-04-08T05:47:43Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m not sure this is where **Bricker** wanted this discussion to go - although it’s a response to comments made in the Pit - but given the tenor of the thread so far and post #13 in particular, I’m going to move this to the Pit from GD. _Pssst. Hey Marley, your bias is showing._ ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/422 "2011-04-08T06:11:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Haven’t read the whole thread. Can anyone summarize the conclusions reached? [Here you go.](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AhOUWpg49_k/SS0A5w4QehI/AAAAAAAAAgs/z2qtyCEgmNU/s400/whargle.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/423 "2011-04-08T07:06:40Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’ve never heard of the Club for Growth, but I don’t believe the CC ever claimed to be non-partsan. They literally wrote the Republican platform a couple of times. Thoise are political activist groups anyway. ACORN was not. Then you haven’t been paying attention. The Christian Coalition has always, like ACORN, claimed to be non-partisan, otherwise they wouldn’t have their tax exempt status. Whenever Ralph Reed appeared in the media when he was their head, he always proclaimed they were a “non-partisan” organization that supported both Republicans and Democrats. By your standards they are non-partisan unless you’d like to rethink what you previously said. > [@](#): > > ACORN was not a Democratic organization. It was non-partisan. If it was a partisan organization, it couldn’t have been funded. Any perceived “liberal” agenda on the aprt of ACORN is sheer, retard right wing fantasy. Incidentally, what’s with the hostility towards people who are developmentally disabled. Moreover, would you mind answering the question I asked earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/424 "2011-04-08T07:16:33Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The Club for Growth is decidedly partisan, and they don’t make any bones about it. > > [url=[http://www.clubforgrowth.org/aboutus/](http://www.clubforgrowth.org/aboutus/)] > > The Christian Coalition, as **Dio** points out, is also a partisan organization, and they don’t try to hide it. Check out the first sentence on their “about us” page:. Dude, I always said that those groups ARE partisan organizations. Please read my posts before making comments. I’m sure you’re not stupid, but you post is. > [@](#): > > The Christian Coalition, as Dio points out, is also a partisan organization, and they don’t try to hide it. Check out the first sentence on their “about us” page: “non-partisan” at least from a legal standpoint, doesn’t mean “non-conservative and non-liberal” it means that the group, at least officially, doesn’t support any political party. Moreover, Dio recognized this when he started this moronic “ACORN isn’t a partisan organization” meme. > [@](#): > > **Dio** > ACORN was not a Democratic organization. It was non-partisan. If it was a partisan organization, it couldn’t have been funded. Any perceived “liberal” agenda on the aprt of ACORN is sheer, retard right wing fantasy. As I said, by Dio’s moronic reasoning, if we’re going to classify ACORN as “non-partisan” then we have to declare both the Club for Growth and the Christian Coalition to be “non-partisan”. Nor are they alone. Technically, the Sierra Club, the NRA, [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org), and various other groups are officially “non-partisan” but no one with a functioning brain thinks they are. > [@](#): > > You’re batting 0 for 2 on your own examples. Like Bricker, maybe you should just shut up now before you dig yourself deeper into your own hole. Again, please read what I actually have said before shooting off your mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/425 "2011-04-08T08:51:04Z")
“Self”, I says, “Stay out of this thread.” But here I is. Anyway, in terms of advocating liberal causes, ACORN was an intervenor for the city in Association of New Jersey Rifle and Pistol Clubs v Jersey City, which was a lawsuit challenging Jersey City’s “One Gun a Month” law. One of ACORN’s campaigns was one to increase the minimum wage, and founded the “Living Wage Resource Center”. You can find the google cache here: [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:fnTkmvJyCrIJ:www.7daysatminimumwage.org/site/%3Fpage\_id%3D23+ACORN+Campaign+to+Raise+the+Minimum+Wage&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:fnTkmvJyCrIJ:www.7daysatminimumwage.org/site/%3Fpage_id%3D23+ACORN+Campaign+to+Raise+the+Minimum+Wage&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com) ACORN was also one of the organizations involved in the founding of the New Party. which was a social-democratic, pro union party that was founded in the 1990s, as well as its successor in New York State, the Working Families Party: > **[New Party (United States)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Party_%28United_States%29)** > > The New Party was a third political party in the United States that tried to re-introduce the practice of electoral fusion. In electoral fusion, the same candidate receives nomination from more than one political party and occupies more than one ballot line. Fusion was once common in the United States but is now commonly practiced only in New York State, although it is allowed by law in seven other states. The party was active from 1992 to 1998. (There had been an earlier, unrelated New Party in ... > **[Working Families Party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Families_Party)** > > The Working Families Party (WFP) is a center-left to left-wing minor political party in the United States, founded in New York in 1998. There are active chapters in California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, the District of Columbia, Georgia, Illinois, Maryland, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Texas, West Virginia, and Wisconsin. > The Working Families Party of New York was first organized in 1998 by a coalition of labor unions, community or... I’d also suggest “The People Shall Rule: ACORN, Community Organizing and the Struggle for Economic Justice.” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/426 "2011-04-08T09:25:02Z")
For some reason I always think Club for Growth is the new name for the Hair Club for Men. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/427 "2011-04-08T09:53:47Z")
**Diogenes** seems to be using the terms partisan and political as synonyms here, when they in fact do not have quite the same meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/428 "2011-04-08T12:10:11Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > It is an odd sort of political faith, one that is half Otto von Bismarck, half Pollyanna. So the strategy of the American Left is to vanquish its internal foes through civil war and then invade France, while dreamily optimistic that all will turn out well in the end? I do like the idea of invading France as a distraction from our other problems. We might not win, but we’d almost certainly wind up with better cheese. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/429 "2011-04-08T12:35:55Z")
I concede that ACORN paid some workers by the number of registrations collected and that was in violation of the law in some areas. I concede that to pay a woman for sex is in violation of the law in most areas. I fail to see a victim in either case. Who exactly was harmed by ACORN paying per registration collected? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/430 "2011-04-08T12:54:40Z")
Well. Apparently, \*\*Bricker \*\*has been mortally offended. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/431 "2011-04-08T12:57:29Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > **Diogenes** seems to be using the terms partisan and political as synonyms here, when they in fact do not have quite the same meaning. ACORN was neither partisan or political, no matter what Fox News told you to think. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/432 "2011-04-08T13:12:33Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Well. Apparently, \*\*Bricker \*\*has been mortally offended. No, I’m actually somewhat pleased with the outcome here. I learned (again!) the value of careful crafting of an OP. And numerous nitwits got to display their nitwittery. It could have been better, but it wasn’t bad. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/433 "2011-04-08T13:12:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > A question I have asked several times in this thread: > > What evidence would be necessary to convince you that they did violate the law? Better question : Why is that relevant to the discussion, given the other points that render it utterly moot? My post does not assume that they violated or did noot violate the law, it accounts for both possibilities and finds your argument still wanting. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/434 "2011-04-08T13:12:59Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > ACORN was neither partisan or political, no matter what Fox News told you to think. Geez…seems the two sides need some definitions: > [@](#): > > Noun > > ``` > S: (n) partisan, zealot, drumbeater (a fervent and even militant proponent of something) > S: (n) enthusiast, partisan, partizan (an ardent and enthusiastic supporter of some person or activity) > S: (n) partisan, partizan (a pike with a long tapering double-edged blade with lateral projections; 16th and 17th centuries) > > ``` > > Adjective > > ``` > S: (adj) partisan, partizan (devoted to a cause or party) > > ``` > > SOURCE: [http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=partisan](http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=partisan) Clearly ACORN was devoted to a cause and an ardent and enthusiastic supporter of certain activities. These activities have been supported by the left and opposed by the right which gives it all a political character. One might say registering voters is not and should not be a politically divisive thing…all citizens should vote. Nevertheless it is a political football that gets kicked around quite a lot and denying that is denying reality. That said, as a non-profit organization, ACORN is prohibited from political activity. > [@](#): > > Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes. > > SOURCE: [http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=163395,00.html](http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=163395,00.html) So, in that sense, they did not engage directly in politics. That said I think ACORN had another aspect which was a lobbying arm (and thus not a tax exempt organization). While separate in funding they acted to lobby the government in accordance with the mission they wanted and that mission, as noted, is distinctly a lefty thing and opposed by the right. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/435 "2011-04-08T13:17:16Z")
Their mission was not partisan, only the opposition to it was because it incidentally helped Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/436 "2011-04-08T13:25:42Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [Here you go.](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AhOUWpg49_k/SS0A5w4QehI/AAAAAAAAAgs/z2qtyCEgmNU/s400/whargle.jpg) OK. That clarifies everything! ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/437 "2011-04-08T13:42:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Their mission was not partisan, only the opposition to it was because it incidentally helped Democrats. Every coin has two sides. Even if you start out with no “side” in mind as soon as someone defines a side opposed to you then you are, by definition, on the other side whether you wanted to be or not. To continue your mission you must oppose those arrayed against you. If not you are out of business so there is little choice in the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/438 "2011-04-08T13:48:19Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > **Diogenes** seems to be using the terms partisan and political as synonyms here, when they in fact do not have quite the same meaning. This is an excellent point! As a matter of fact, if the Democrats (of today) actually did fight for the things that ACORN fought for, there might not have been any need for ACORN to exist. ACORN was not an arm of the Democrats, nor partisans to that group. In fact, the only way that they could have been considered partisans is if one were to believe that fighting for the poor, for worker’s rights, and for civil rights could be considered a “cause.” If so, ACORN was partisan to that cause, but Democrats, as a party, could hardly be described similarly. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/439 "2011-04-08T13:58:38Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > So, to sum up : > > ACORN pled guilty to improper compensation of registration workers. From this we \*\*cannot \*\*conclude that A.) ACORN did anything illegal, merely that they opted to pay the fine rather than fight the charge; B.) that ACORN did anything _wrong_, per se, even if they did actually commit the act in question. > > Thus, the assertion Bricker is trying to refute, that ACORN “did absolutely nothing wrong”, even if one unreasonably lifts it out of its context and construes it as referring to all of ACORN’s conduct in the history of time itself - remains unrefuted. > > So no matter how you look at it, the OP was pointless. Kudos! > [@CandidGamera](#): > > Better question : Why is that relevant to the discussion, given the other points that render it utterly moot? My post does not assume that they violated or did noot violate the law, it accounts for both possibilities and finds your argument still wanting. Seems to me your post disposed of arguments rather perfunctorily. For example, (B) asserts that ACORN did nothing wrong even if they did commit the illegal act. I have withdrawn the claim of “wrongness” in an effort to focus on the utterly and trivially provable, but I have not disavowed it. And so I don’t agree. I think it was wrong. But I recognize that people of good faith may disagree on that point. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/440 "2011-04-08T14:05:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have withdrawn the claim of “wrongness” in an effort to focus on the utterly and trivially provable, but I have not disavowed it. And so I don’t agree. I think it was wrong. What they did was illegal in Nevada. What they did is legal in other states. So, in your view, the “wrongness” only applies in Nevada (or other states) where it is illegal? Everywhere else it is peachy? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467.md?page=23)