# "ACORN did absolutely nothing wrong" no longer true **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 6, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467 "2011-04-06T23:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/441 "2011-04-08T14:14:20Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Dude, I always said that those groups ARE partisan organizations. > > Please read my posts before making comments. I’m sure you’re not stupid, but you post is. > > “non-partisan” at least from a legal standpoint, doesn’t mean “non-conservative and non-liberal” it means that the group, at least officially, doesn’t support any political party. > > Moreover, Dio recognized this when he started this moronic “ACORN isn’t a partisan organization” meme. > > As I said, by Dio’s moronic reasoning, if we’re going to classify ACORN as “non-partisan” then we have to declare both the Club for Growth and the Christian Coalition to be “non-partisan”. > > Nor are they alone. Technically, the Sierra Club, the NRA, [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org), and various other groups are officially “non-partisan” but no one with a functioning brain thinks they are. > > Again, please read what I actually have said before shooting off your mouth. I’ll go tit for tat with you and your own idiotic posts then. Read the quotes in my post: you’re wrong about Club for Growth. They explicitly say that they endorse and support Republicans. At best you’re 1 for 2. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/442 "2011-04-08T14:24:48Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I concede that ACORN paid some workers by the number of registrations collected and that was in violation of the law in some areas. I concede that to pay a woman for sex is in violation of the law in most areas. I fail to see a victim in either case. Who exactly was harmed by ACORN paying per registration collected? Gosh, you’re right…there’s no potential for harm to the democratic process whatsoever through paying people bounties for collecting the maximal number of voter registrations possible. Just like it’s [entirely innocent](http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/02/15/34179.htm) for a Republican candidate to send out a mass mailing warning Hispanics of the threat of deportation if they vote illegally. I mean, who’s harmed, really. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/443 "2011-04-08T14:29:38Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Gosh, you’re right…there’s no potential for harm to the democratic process whatsoever through paying people bounties for collecting the maximal number of voter registrations possible. Just like it’s [entirely innocent](http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/02/15/34179.htm) for a Republican candidate to send out a mass mailing warning Hispanics of the threat of deportation if they vote illegally. > > I mean, who’s harmed, really. :dubious: Are you aware that any fraudulent registrations are supremely unlikely to actually generate fraudulent votes? Turning in a registration with Mikey Mouse on it doesn’t make Mickey Mouse show up to the polling place. Who is injured again? ACORN was injured. Because some of their contractors fucked with them. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/444 "2011-04-08T14:32:21Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > What they did was illegal in Nevada. > > What they did is legal in other states. > > So, in your view, the “wrongness” only applies in Nevada (or other states) where it is illegal? Everywhere else it is peachy? Sure. There’s a joke I love about Dominican drivers. A guy flies in to New York and hails a taxi; it’s driven by a Dominican. They zoom away from the airport, and the rider is terrified when the driver blows right through a red light. “Hey! Are you trying to get us killed?” he yells. “Take it easy,” says the driver. “My brother drives this way.” At the next intersection, again the driver ignores a red light and zooms through. “Jesus, cut it out! Are you nuts?” screams the passenger. “I told you, my brother drives this way,” replies the cabbie. At the next intersection, the light’s green, and the passenger sighs in relief, but then is puzzled when his driver stops. “What’s wrong?” asks the passenger. “Well,” says the cabbie, “my brother might be coming the other way.” -rim shot- Driving through a red light is wrong, because it places the lives and health of your passengers and other drivers at risk. But that’s only because we have a convention that one stops at red lights – absent that convention, it’s not wrong. I hope the parallel to this situation is clear – violating the rule isn’t wrong in and of itself, but when the rule exists there is an expectation that everyone will follow it. When one actor does not, it creates an unfair advantage for him, to the detriment of the other actors. And that is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/445 "2011-04-08T14:50:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > There’s a joke I love about Dominican drivers.[humorous and on-point anecdote deleted] I hope the parallel to this situation is clear – violating the rule isn’t wrong in and of itself, but when the rule exists there is an expectation that everyone will follow it. When one actor does not, it creates an unfair advantage for him, to the detriment of the other actors. And that is wrong. Put this way, I agree 100%. It doesn’t matter what the rules are in the other states-breaking the rules in the state you are currently operating in will give you an advantage is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/446 "2011-04-08T14:54:19Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Gosh, you’re right…there’s no potential for harm to the democratic process whatsoever through paying people bounties for collecting the maximal number of voter registrations possible. Just like it’s [entirely innocent](http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/02/15/34179.htm) for a Republican candidate to send out a mass mailing warning Hispanics of the threat of deportation if they vote illegally. > > I mean, who’s harmed, really. :dubious: Usually I can discern sarcastic posts. This one, though, is very frankly stupid but lacks any of the typical indicators of sarcasm. It seems both sincere and stupid. Could you clarify your intent? ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/447 "2011-04-08T15:03:33Z")
> [@Darth\_Nader](#): > > Crap, it didn’t work. Time to start pumping in the seawater. “ **Darth Nader** for the win” > [@emacknight](#): > > Like a train derailing into a joint kindergarden/puppy factory it just keeps getting better. Can we put a refugee camp nearby? > [@Bricker](#): > > Seems to me your post disposed of arguments rather perfunctorily. For example, (B) asserts that ACORN did nothing wrong even if they did commit the illegal act. > > I have withdrawn the claim of “wrongness” in an effort to focus on the utterly and trivially provable, but I have not disavowed it. And so I don’t agree. I think it was wrong. > > But I recognize that people of good faith may disagree on that point. **Bricker** , I concur with **kaylasdad99**. Dude, it’s Lent, malevolent carnal pelasures like starting this thread are exactly the point of the Quadragesima. I recommend a couple of Rosaries for extra penance, sackcloth is optional. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/448 "2011-04-08T15:08:33Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I’ll go tit for tat with you and your own idiotic posts then. Read the quotes in my post: you’re wrong about Club for Growth. They explicitly say that they endorse and support Republicans. > > At best you’re 1 for 2. Sigh, if you have proof that they ONLY endorse Republicans and have statements from them specifically saying that(not weasel words or weasel phrases which imply that) then you need to take that evidence to the IRS now, because then they are in violation of the law and should be stripped of their tax exempt status. Compiling lists of “RINOs” while obviously partisan does not technically make them partisan. The same is true of [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org) alerting people about “DINOs”. Anyway I don’t understand why we’re having this moronic conversation. Obviously they are a partisan organization even if they’re legally non-partisan. I was merely making the point that the same is true of ACORN which is technically non-partisan but advocates for a number of left-wing causes and against various right-wing causes. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/449 "2011-04-08T15:08:56Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Gosh, you’re right…there’s no potential for harm to the democratic process whatsoever through paying people bounties for collecting the maximal number of voter registrations possible. Recognizing that I’m the third one to quote it, I hope this isn’t overly redundant, but I have a specific question: Assuming there is an accurate process in place to identify and remove registrations of fake voters (which there is), what exactly do you see as “the potential harm to the democratic process” here? Clearly, there’s potential harm to the payer’s bank account, as they’re paying the bounty; also an increased work load for the process of catching the fake registrations. But I’m not seeing the fundamental threat to democracy that I think you are… ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/450 "2011-04-08T15:11:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Put this way, I agree 100%. It doesn’t matter what the rules are in the other states-breaking the rules in the state you are currently operating in will give you an advantage is wrong. Try it this way. Back before the pro-football had a two point conversion (they do today) only college football had it. Now, in pro-football, it would be “wrong” for one team to ignore the rule and go for a two-point conversion. It is an unfair advantage. However, that did not make the two-point conversion itself wrong. It was fine to do in college football. The thing itself is not necessarily “wrong”. Not playing by the rules is wrong. I fully agree if this law is broken in Nevada then it is appropriate to bust people for violating it. Same as the refs in pro football would bust a team for trying a two-point conversion before it was allowed. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/451 "2011-04-08T15:21:46Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Try it this way. > > Back before the pro-football had a two point conversion (they do today) only college football had it. > > Now, in pro-football, it would be “wrong” for one team to ignore the rule and go for a two-point conversion. It is an unfair advantage. > > However, that did not make the two-point conversion itself wrong. It was fine to do in college football. > > The thing itself is not necessarily “wrong”. Not playing by the rules is wrong. > > I fully agree if this law is broken in Nevada then it is appropriate to bust people for violating it. Same as the refs in pro football would bust a team for trying a two-point conversion before it was allowed. Actually NFL teams could always run or pass the extra point, they just wouldn’t get two points for it. I do see the point that if Republican-leaning organizations were scrupulously following every letter of the law they would in theory be at a disadvantage compared to Democratic-leaning organizations that paid for registration collection. However, let’s be honest. Given that the two Republican constituencies are the wealthy and the rabid social conservatives, how many Republican voters even need to be wooed in a registration drive? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/452 "2011-04-08T15:36:47Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Actually NFL teams could always run or pass the extra point, they just wouldn’t get two points for it. Ah…I never knew that. Hopefully the sense of what I was getting at remains though. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/453 "2011-04-08T15:37:50Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > Recognizing that I’m the third one to quote it, I hope this isn’t overly redundant, but I have a specific question: > > Assuming there is an accurate process in place to identify and remove registrations of fake voters (which there is), what exactly do you see as “the potential harm to the democratic process” here? > > Clearly, there’s potential harm to the payer’s bank account, as they’re paying the bounty; also an increased work load for the process of catching the fake registrations. But I’m not seeing the fundamental threat to democracy that I think you are… I don’t assume that there is that process. In many places registrations stay in place until they age out - and some jurisdictions prevent that. In addition, flooding the courthouse with tons of questionable registrations can overload the system so whatever processes are in place cannot go forth effectively. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/454 "2011-04-08T15:41:32Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Ah…I never knew that. > > Hopefully the sense of what I was getting at remains though. It was generally never something you tried. On rare occasions, the snap would be muffed and the kicker might pick up the ball and attempt a pass or a run and on really rare occasions, the conversion would be good. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/455 "2011-04-08T15:51:22Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > I don’t assume that there is that process. In many places registrations stay in place until they age out - and some jurisdictions prevent that. In addition, flooding the courthouse with tons of questionable registrations can overload the system so whatever processes are in place cannot go forth effectively. That sounds dreadful! We need to know more. When and where did this awful thing happen? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/456 "2011-04-08T16:09:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > That sounds dreadful! We need to know more. When and where did this awful thing happen? I think it was in "WhatIf world, where Donald Trump is not a fantastic retard, and everyone can imagine “what if ACORN hired Cthulhu, and they take Him from His tomb to revive His subjects and resume His rule of earth.” ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/457 "2011-04-08T16:23:31Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Incidentally, what’s with the hostility towards people who are developmentally disabled. I’ve known more than one good person who was developmentally disabled. What was good about them, however, was never their retardation. Being retarded doesn’t make you a bad person, but the retardation itself \*is \*a bad thing. But here’s your Pointless PC Police sticker for the month of April. Grats! > [@Gyrate](#): > > For some reason I always think Club for Growth is the new name for the Hair Club for Men. I’m gonna go with an organization that promotes beating children to give them a better chance at making the basketball team. Or possibly to build character. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/458 "2011-04-08T16:26:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > That sounds dreadful! We need to know more. When and where did this awful thing happen? [Seattle.](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003806904_webvotefraud26m.html) > [@](#): > > ACORN agreed to pay King County $25,000 for its investigative costs and acknowledged that the national organization could be subject to criminal prosecution if fraud occurs again. > > “Ladies and gentlemen, this is the worst case of voter-registration fraud in the history of the state of Washington. There has been nothing comparable to this,” state Secretary of State Sam Reed said at a news conference with Satterberg, King County Executive Ron Sims and Acting U.S. Attorney Jeff Sullivan. > > …The announcement of criminal charges came after the King County Canvassing Board revoked 1,762 allegedly fraudulent voter registrations submitted by ACORN employees. Please note that the events in Nevada took place after the Seattle incident. ACORN was required to change its procedures and failed to do so. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/459 "2011-04-08T16:33:10Z")
Was ACORN non-partisan and unbiased? No, I must ruefully confess, no. Where were their outreach efforts on the ski slopes of Aspen, or in any of America’s fine gated communities? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/460 "2011-04-08T16:49:51Z")
But that isn’t quite what you said, now is it, buckaroo? > [@](#): > > …In addition, flooding the courthouse with tons of questionable registrations can overload the system so whatever processes are in place cannot go forth effectively. And then you offer as proof an instance where fraudulent behavior was effectively discovered and prosecuted. Which is precisely the opposite of your claim. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467.md?page=24)