# "ACORN did absolutely nothing wrong" no longer true **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 6, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467 "2011-04-06T23:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/461 "2011-04-08T17:14:37Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > I don’t assume that there is that process. You don’t have to assume such a process is in place – there _is_ such a process in place. The evidence that this is so is that, by law, _all voter registration forms must be submitted_. But you knew that, right? > [@](#): > > In many places registrations stay in place until they age out - and some jurisdictions prevent that. And this has nothing to do with submission of voter registration forms, but rather with already existing registered voters. > [@](#): > > In addition, flooding the courthouse with tons of questionable registrations can overload the system so whatever processes are in place cannot go forth effectively. Acknowledged, although I did so in terms of money and not effort. Clearly your hypothetical is possible in the modal logic sense; practically speaking – in terms of a “fundamental threat to democracy” – not so much, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/462 "2011-04-08T17:23:19Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > But that isn’t quite what you said, now is it, buckaroo? > > And then you offer as proof an instance where fraudulent behavior was effectively discovered and prosecuted. Which is precisely the opposite of your claim. I said it _can_ do so. Which is why it was prosecuted. Which is why the crime was described as a vandalism of the electoral rolls. Which is why ACORN really should not have done it again. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/463 "2011-04-08T17:29:23Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > I said it _can_ do so. Which is why it was prosecuted. Which is why the crime was described as a vandalism of the electoral rolls. > > Which is why ACORN really should not have done it again. Was paying employees for each registration illegal in Washington? The article does not say but near as I can tell the employees were prosecuted for registration fraud. In which case ACORN did not do it “again”. The laws broken in each case were different. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/464 "2011-04-08T18:04:05Z")
It’s also the day workers hired by ACORN that did that, not ACORN itself. ACORN was the defrauded party, not the defrauders. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/465 "2011-04-08T18:08:53Z")
Was it a day worker who told the registration-gatherers that they’d get extra money for making their “quota?” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/466 "2011-04-08T18:13:01Z")
Was telling them that registration fraud? no. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/467 "2011-04-08T18:13:57Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Was it a day worker who told the registration-gatherers that they’d get extra money for making their “quota?” Quotas are measurable. It is difficult to assess how hard someone works . So you assign quotas to make them more productive. The theory is good but in practice some employees will cheat to take the heat off and to save their jobs. Quotas are quite common though. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/468 "2011-04-08T18:19:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Was telling them that registration fraud? no. Was it against the law in Nevada? Yes. Again, was that action taken by day laborers? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/469 "2011-04-08T18:20:20Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Was it against the law in Nevada? Not in Washington, as far as I can tell. That’s where **Moto’s** story happened. Nevada has nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/470 "2011-04-08T18:34:25Z")
Sorry, I lost the thread of the thread, so to speak. As I mentioned above, I’m exceptionally far behind on this monstrosity, and to be candid, I’m no longer very interested. There are other, far more interesting threads for me to read on the Dope, and when I’ve finished those there’s still plenty of free porn out there. I’ve said my piece. You’re being an obstinate ass (and I’m on your freakin’ SIDE, fertheluvaMike) with your refusal to make the TEENSY concession that a minor qualification of your assertion would constitute; and **Bricker** ’s gleeful gloating is unseemly (and I’ll note that wrt the larger question of whether ACORN got a raw deal, HE’S on your freakin’ side, too :rolleyes:). Y’all have fun with the rest of it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/471 "2011-04-08T18:46:16Z")
> [@](#): > > …Satterberg, Reed and other officials stressed that the defendants were motivated by financial gain rather than any desire to toy with the outcome of an election. They said that in one sense, ACORN was victimized because it paid for voter-registration work that was never performed… > > …ACORN, which cooperated with the investigation… A couple of minor, trivial points left out of the original quotation/cite, no doubt in the interests of brevity. And while you’re about it, where does the quote that begins “Ladies and gentlemen…” appear in the cited article? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/472 "2011-04-08T19:21:38Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > That sounds dreadful! We need to know more. When and where did this awful thing happen? Did I miss your reaction to the discovery that Diogenes was not speaking figuratively or with hyperbole, but literally? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/473 "2011-04-08T19:41:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > A couple of minor, trivial points left out of the original quotation/cite, no doubt in the interests of brevity. > > And while you’re about it, where does the quote that begins “Ladies and gentlemen…” appear in the cited article? In one sense, you are right. And please note again that my criticisms of ACORN all this time, across all of these threads, amount to a belief that they ran their various organizations in a slipshod fashion and in this way permitted this long list of things to happen. ACORN entered into a consent decree with King County - in exchange for the $25,000, reform of their procedures and a clean record in the future they wouldn’t be prosecuted for that instance of fraud. [Consent decree is linked here.](http://www.docstoc.com/docs/26729258/King-County-ACORN-Settlement) And while ACORN stipulates in this decree that they deny wrongdoing, that doesn’t mean much. They agreed to the decree and its terms. Also, this is from the Revised Code of Washington State: > [@](#): > > RCW 29A.84.130 > Voter violations. > > Any person who: > > ``` > (1) Knowingly provides false information on an application for voter registration under any provision of this title; > > (2) Knowingly makes or attests to a false declaration as to his or her qualifications as a voter; > > (3) Knowingly causes or permits himself or herself to be registered using the name of another person; > > (4) Knowingly causes himself or herself to be registered under two or more different names; > > (5) Knowingly causes himself or herself to be registered in two or more counties; > > (6) Offers to pay another person to assist in registering voters, where payment is based on a fixed amount of money per voter registration; > > (7) Accepts payment for assisting in registering voters, where payment is based on a fixed amount of money per voter registration; or > > (8) Knowingly causes any person to be registered or causes any registration to be transferred or canceled except as authorized under this title, > > ``` > > is guilty of a class C felony punishable under RCW 9A.20.021. So we seem to have settled this - the law in Washington State appears to be similar to that in Nevada. ACORN had no excuse here. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/474 "2011-04-08T20:26:44Z")
Except for where that quote came from, since it does’t appear in the linked article? The one that starts with “Ladies and gentlemen…”? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/475 "2011-04-08T20:30:51Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Except for where that quote came from, since it does’t appear in the linked article? The one that starts with “Ladies and gentlemen…”? It’s there. Sixth paragraph. I did not immediately reply since I had no idea what you were talking about. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/476 "2011-04-08T20:38:03Z")
Well, I’ll be dipped, so it is! As Eugene V. Debs is my witness, I looked at that thing about five-ten times, and didn’t see it. Apology duly rendered. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/477 "2011-04-08T20:41:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Did I miss your reaction to the discovery that Diogenes was not speaking figuratively or with hyperbole, but literally? Oh, sorry. Bad,\*\* Diogenes\*\*, bad! Go lay down by your water dish! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/478 "2011-04-08T20:57:50Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, I’ll be dipped, so it is! As Eugene V. Debs is my witness, I looked at that thing about five-ten times, and didn’t see it. Apology duly rendered. No problem. That sort of thing is happening to me more and more as I get a little older - and you obviously have a head start there. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/479 "2011-04-08T21:29:38Z")
They stopped making browsers with Ctrl+F? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/480 "2011-04-08T21:32:25Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > They stopped making browsers with Ctrl+F? Don’t confuse the poor gentleman - it’s past suppertime now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467.md?page=25)