# "ACORN did absolutely nothing wrong" no longer true **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 6, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467 "2011-04-06T23:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/41 "2011-04-07T00:54:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. No, no, no. > > Now, not even a guilty plea means they’re guilty, huh? > > Wow. It’s difficult to imagine what could be adduced as proof of guilt when even a guilty plea won’t suffice. Guilty in the legal sense yes. By definition they plead guilty. Have you never heard of a case, _any case anywhere_, where an innocent person plead guilty to a crime? (please please please answer “no”…have a bag of gotchas waiting to post) That person is likewise, in a legal sense and by legal definition, guilty. From my perspective on the sidelines I would say they are not guilty of a crime and merely took a shitty deal because the alternative was worse. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/42 "2011-04-07T00:54:48Z")
ACORN did nothing wrong. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/43 "2011-04-07T00:55:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, that was the argument before. > > But this criminal charge was against the organization, not an individual. The ACORN entity itself was a criminal defendant, and now it (ACORN, itself) has pled guilty. > > So you cannot claim (though you wiggle and dance mightily in an attempt) that ACORN did nothing wrong. ACORN admitted it did wrong. That’s what a guilty plea is. > > Now, this proves nothing about O’Keefe or teenage prostitutes, nor do I claim it does. It doesn’t prove ACORN was treated fairly; I agree they weren’t. > > See? I don’t hold to ridiculous dogmatic lines. > > But it DOES prove that ACORN, the entity itself, pled guilty, and thus as a matter of law IS guilty. > > And there are people here who refuse to concede that fact. Keep fucking that chicken, Bricker. Keep fucking that chicken. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/44 "2011-04-07T00:56:20Z")
It’s a good thing Congress took swift action to shut this mighty criminal enterprise. Tell me though, would it have been so wrong to wait until AFTER the guilty plea to hang them from the gallows? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/45 "2011-04-07T00:57:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They are guilty of what? You know this is pathetic. ACORN did nothing wrong. I will still say that straight out and still be right. They are guilty of what? Guilty of the criminal act of paying compensation for registration of voters based upon number of voters registered. They did it, it’s against the law, and they admitted it. Continue to stick your fingers in your ears and chant. But they admitted guilt to the charge in court, the plea was accepted, and that’s that. That’s what “guilty” means. If someone says “Cite?” this is the cite for the guiltiness. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/46 "2011-04-07T00:57:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They are guilty of what? They pled guilty to unlawfully providing compensation for registering voters based on the total number of people registered. Christ, between you on one side, and **Bricker** attempting to rehabilitate O’Keefe on the other, I’m about ready to give up on expecting any fucking common fucking sense in this fucking thread. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/47 "2011-04-07T00:58:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, that was the argument before. > > But this criminal charge was against the organization, not an individual. The ACORN entity itself was a criminal defendant, and now it (ACORN, itself) has pled guilty. Is this weird artifact of corporate personhood again? Do you have a picture of this ACORN entity standing in court entering a plea? I’d like to see it. Seems to me an organization, as far as it is a thing that can make decisions, is really the executives and the board who make those decisions (and on down the line). You know…real people. I realize the court apparently sees this ACORN as a thing that can plead guilty but if not the people who run it are doing wrong then how can a construct that is a corporation do wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/48 "2011-04-07T00:58:39Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > ACORN did nothing wrong. Sorry. Then they’re idiots, because they just entered a plea of guilty, thus admitting for the record their guilt. But in fact, they did excactly what the law forbids: they paid for registrations. And you know it, though you obstinately deny it. But every person reading this thread knows it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/49 "2011-04-07T00:59:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > They are guilty of what? Guilty of the criminal act of paying compensation for registration of voters based upon number of voters registered. In other words, fucking nothing. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/50 "2011-04-07T01:00:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This has to do with statements like these: I still am not clear - sorry. We are (1) talking about one single incident, correct? Or are you in fact implying (2) that every time someone defended ACORN as innocent they clearly meant that ACORN and it’s agents have never ever done anything wrong. I believe your OP points out that in one incident persons working for ACORN acted inappropriately and apparently illegally. However it seems you are trying to use this to rebut the strawman argument in the second statement (2) I don’t believe anyone ever made. Or are we in fact speaking about one single incident? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/51 "2011-04-07T01:00:48Z")
Thanks for starting this thread **Bricker**. Now whenever I call you a sad little pedantic lawyer, who favors the letter of the law over the truth, I will simply link to this thread as my cite. I know that you’re quite content that the evil, evil entity that is ACORN is no longer able to register voters from those smelly lower classes. It was just disgusting what they were doing! I’m sure ACORN’s punishment of complete and utter destruction for the crime of one of their organizers breaking NRS 293.805 seems completely fair and just to you. Oh, sorry, you are talking about LEGALITIES. Fairness and Justice does not have a place here. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/52 "2011-04-07T01:00:53Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Is this weird artifact of corporate personhood again? > > Do you have a picture of this ACORN entity standing in court entering a plea? I’d like to see it. > > Seems to me an organization, as far as it is a thing that can make decisions, is really the executives and the board who make those decisions. > > You know…real people. > > I realize the court apparently sees this ACORN as a thing that can plead guilty but if not the people who run it are doing wrong then how can a construct that is a corporation do wrong? Hilarious. If the officers plead guilty, then you claim, “It’s Joe, and Steve, and Trevor that are guilty – not ACORN.” And now that ACORN itself pleads guilty, you look dumbfounded at the very idea that a corporation can itself be a criminal defendant. Pure genius. Yes, ACORN, the corporate person, admitted guilt. That’s what ACORN is guilty. Guilty, guilty, guilty. The fact won’t go away, but keep wishing. Perhaps a falling star will happen. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/53 "2011-04-07T01:02:02Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Thanks for starting this thread **Bricker**. Now whenever I call you a sad little pedantic lawyer, who favors the letter of the law over the truth, I will simply link to this thread as my cite. > > I know that you’re quite content that the evil, evil entity that is ACORN is no longer able to register voters from those smelly lower classes. It was just disgusting what they were doing! > > I’m sure ACORN’s punishment of complete and utter destruction for the crime of one of their organizers breaking NRS 293.805 seems completely fair and just to you. Oh, sorry, you are talking about LEGALITIES. Fairness and Justice does not have a place here. Learn to read: > [@Bricker](#): > > It doesn’t prove ACORN was treated fairly; I agree they weren’t. Did you read that line? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/54 "2011-04-07T01:03:23Z")
You’ve got nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/55 "2011-04-07T01:04:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Then they’re idiots, because they just entered a plea of guilty, thus admitting for the record their guilt. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > In other words, fucking nothing. No. Those are not “in other words.” Those are different words that mean something different. If they had done “fucking nothing” then they would not have entered a plea of guilty to the criminal law that they violated by paying compensation for voter registrations. But they DID pay for voter registrations, and that WAS against the law, and they DID plead guilty, because they were guilty. Done. Case. Closed. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You’ve got nothing. Again, you miss the basic concept. “Nothing” would be no criminal violations, and no guilty plea, and no guilty verdict. What we have here, in contrast, is criminal violations, A guilty plea, and A guilty verdict. Perhaps you missed the Sesame Street where they explained the difference between zero and other numbers. If you like, I can look on YouTube for something helpful. Maybe with a jingle. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/56 "2011-04-07T01:06:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Learn to read: > > Did you read that line? I did - however I did not believe that you were sincere in the slightest. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/57 "2011-04-07T01:06:46Z")
Your deluded attempt to brandish this nothing as some kind of trophy was amusing for a few seconds, but I think I’ll move on with my life now. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/58 "2011-04-07T01:07:19Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m not sure this is where **Bricker** wanted this discussion to go - although it’s a response to comments made in the Pit - but given the tenor of the thread so far and post #13 in particular, I’m going to move this to the Pit from GD. I hate you. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/59 "2011-04-07T01:08:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Hilarious. If the officers plead guilty, then you claim, “It’s Joe, and Steve, and Trevor that are guilty – not ACORN.” And now that ACORN itself pleads guilty, you look dumbfounded at the very idea that a corporation can itself be a criminal defendant. > > Pure genius. > > Yes, ACORN, the corporate person, admitted guilt. > > That’s what ACORN is guilty. > > Guilty, guilty, guilty. > > The fact won’t go away, but keep wishing. Perhaps a falling star will happen. Imagine ACORN committed a felony with a mandatory jail sentence. How would you throw ACORN in jail? Try it this way: If the guy in Nevada told his signature collection guys they’d get paid for every person they shot who would you expect to be standing in front of a court and pleading guilty? ACORN? Is there a jail anywhere that can hold this ACORN entity? That is laughable. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/60 "2011-04-07T01:08:59Z")
[Bingo!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THLabh7WMXw) Diogenes, please review this link. I think it will really help clear up your confusion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467.md?page=4)