# "ACORN did absolutely nothing wrong" no longer true **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 6, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467 "2011-04-06T23:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/161 "2011-04-07T11:39:53Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > We had been debating that point for awhile prior to the bit I just quoted. > > In post #74 in that thread I once again debunked Scalia as a Textualist to a different poster (so you had two chances at seeing it). > > You also replied to a different post I made in that thread after I posted Scalia’s quote but related to other things so you were still engaged in the thread. > > Given that I will leave it to the jury to decide if you managed to conveniently missed it. You’re something else. I complain about people not admitting their error when it’s a back-and-forth discussion, quoting of posts included, that goes on for pages and pages. In “rebuttal” you manage to dredge up a single instance where you conclude I must have seen two posts, because I posted in the thread after they were made? Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/162 "2011-04-07T12:14:18Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > You’re better than this, Bricker. You really are. Arguing facts not in evidence. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/163 "2011-04-07T12:18:47Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Arguing facts not in evidence. There was a time. _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/164 "2011-04-07T12:46:41Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > And you know, I have to take exception to **Bricker** ’s contention that, due to this **plea bargain** , ACORN is guilty of doing something wrong. The fine the (now, apparently, defunct) company is going to have to pay is $5000. That’s a hell of a lot cheaper than paying lawyers to continue to fight the charges. > > I don’t care if, legally, their plea bargain means that they’re guilty. Hell, for all anyone knows, the employee didn’t do it at all- but it was cheaper for the company (which no longer exists, remember?) to just agree to pay the fine. > > So enjoy your little victory, **Bricker**. It comes at the cost of whatever respect you had left. So your position is that they did not, in fact, pay employees per registration? What evidence would you need to see to convince you that they did? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/165 "2011-04-07T12:57:24Z")
It takes more than facts to cause the SDMB to change its collective mind. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/166 "2011-04-07T13:08:45Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Arguing facts not in evidence. Not in evidence for some months, at the least. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/167 "2011-04-07T13:11:17Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’ve no problem admitting that ACORN violated a minor law in Nevada, a law which has a sufficient amount of merit to not be casually dismissed as inherently useless, outdated or unfair. > > Of course, this being true allows for a claim of victory over… well… Dio, I guess. Not exactly an Everest of accomplishment. Yeah, this. Of course, if it succeeds _by implication_ in suggesting that ACORN was to some extent the nefarious organisation that it was portrayed to be by certain unscrupulous right-wingers, well… **Bricker** certainly can’t be held responsible for that. Just as (for example) in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13338566&postcount=91) he couldn’t be responsible for people misunderstanding which person he was referring to. It is possible to speak only the truth and still be arguing in bad faith. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/168 "2011-04-07T13:20:41Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Yeah, this. > > Of course, if it succeeds _by implication_ in suggesting that ACORN was to some extent the nefarious organisation that it was portrayed to be by certain unscrupulous right-wingers, well… **Bricker** certainly can’t be held responsible for that. Just as (for example) in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13338566&postcount=91) he couldn’t be responsible for people misunderstanding which person he was referring to. > > It is possible to speak only the truth and still be arguing in bad faith. Exactly. **Bricker** , I can’t tell if you don’t understand the point that’s being made here (not by **Dio** , but by folks like **Gyrate** and **Bryan Ekers** ), or if you’re simply hoping that if you ignore it long enough, you won’t have to address it. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/169 "2011-04-07T13:24:44Z")
Or, to put it another way, this is the declarative form of **[Just Asking Questions](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/JAQing_off)** (which would be **Just Sayin’** , I suppose). ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/170 "2011-04-07T13:24:46Z")
Yes, ACORN paid piecework for voter registration. That isn’t legal in that jurisdiction and they shouldn’t have done that. Was the intent to register ineligible voters? No. Wat there intent to deprive others of their right to vote? No. As sins go, I’d consider this most venial. Now compare that to the actions of the former Ohio Secretary of State. [Tossing out voter applications](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/09/27/53984/-Ohio-rejects-1000s-of-voter-registration-applications-due-to-paper-weight) because they were on forms with the incorrect weight of paper was indeed intent to deprive others of their right to vote. Compare that to [states that unfairly distribute voting machines](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/27/AR2008102702289.html?hpid=topnews) in an attempt to curtail minority voting. If you jump up and down in glee over the speck of dust in ACORN’s eye, yet ignore the planks in the GOP’s eye, then you’re a mindless partisan or an asshole. Or more likely, both. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/171 "2011-04-07T13:43:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So your position is that they did not, in fact, pay employees per registration? > > What evidence would you need to see to convince you that they did? Where did I say that? I don’t remember saying that. Do you remember me saying that? No, what I \*actually \*said is that making a plea bargain was cheaper than fighting the charges. I realize you’re bound and determined to find ACORN guilty of something, _anything_, to excuse the way your party demonized them, but this is incredibly weak tea. Hell, for all I know, they actually did do it. However, assuming that this plea bargain implies that they’re guilty is a huge leap of faith given the circumstances. And before you try to claim that I’d be braying for blood if ACORN had been a Republican version, you can just nip that in the bud. I might enjoy a bit of schadenfreude were that the case, but I certainly wouldn’t be claiming that it excused the witchhunt the organization went through. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/172 "2011-04-07T13:50:40Z")
This is the break the McCain campaign has been waiting for. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/173 "2011-04-07T13:55:52Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > I certainly wouldn’t be claiming that it excused the witchhunt the organization went through. Where did **Bricker** say that? I don’t remember **Bricker** saying that. Do you remember **Bricker** saying that? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/174 "2011-04-07T14:01:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Where did **Bricker** say that? I don’t remember **Bricker** saying that. Do you remember **Bricker** saying that? So implying hypocrisy on the part of his opponents is not something **Bricker** does, such that a preemptive “No, I’m not being hypocritical” is terribly unreasonable? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/175 "2011-04-07T14:05:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Where did **Bricker** say that? I don’t remember **Bricker** saying that. Do you remember **Bricker** saying that? I didn’t say \*\*Bricker \*\*claimed that. Reading comprehension really isn’t your strong suit, is it? What’s next, “I know you are but what am I”? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/176 "2011-04-07T14:12:49Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > And before you try to claim that I’d be braying for blood if ACORN had been a Republican version, you can just nip that in the bud. I might enjoy a bit of schadenfreude were that the case, but I certainly wouldn’t be claiming that it excused the witchhunt the organization went through. Ah, but **Lightnin** ’, you need to realize that these folks know _better than you do yourself_ how you would act in any given hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/177 "2011-04-07T14:21:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Hilarious. If the officers plead guilty, then you claim, “It’s Joe, and Steve, and Trevor that are guilty – not ACORN.” And now that ACORN itself pleads guilty, you look dumbfounded at the very idea that a corporation can itself be a criminal defendant. > > Pure genius. > > Yes, ACORN, the corporate person, admitted guilt. > > That’s what ACORN is guilty. > > Guilty, guilty, guilty. > > The fact won’t go away, but keep wishing. Perhaps a falling star will happen. Hey, you people say what you like about Bricker, but it’s pretty impressive that a four year old managed to get a law degree. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/178 "2011-04-07T14:25:08Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > I didn’t say \*\*Bricker \*\*claimed that. Actually, yes you did. On reflection, I am arguing with someone who claims that, even if ACORN admits it and is convicted, we still cannot assume they are guilty. So I guess it is not much of a stretch to say that even if you said it, you still didn’t say it. > [@Euphonious Polemic](#): > > Ah, but **Lightnin’** , you need to realize that these folks know better than you do yourself how you would act in any given hypothetical. AKA we can recognize lies when we see them. If this were a Republican organization, that is exactly what he would do. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/179 "2011-04-07T14:30:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If this were a Republican organization, that is exactly what he would do. > > Regards, > Shodan See? Don’t deny what you are _really_ thinking **Lightnin** ’ Shodan knows far,far better than you do what you think and how you would act in any given situation. ETA: ACORN never replaces the toilet paper after using the last square. He’s like a Jedi. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467/180 "2011-04-07T14:44:32Z")
Sometimes I think **Shodan** reads the posts here as if they’re Magic Eye pictures, spending hours squinting at them until he sees what he’s looking for. _“IT’S A PICTURE OF A DOLPHIN, I TELL YOU!!!”_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-did-absolutely-nothing-wrong-no-longer-true/577467.md?page=10)