# ACORN "pimp" arrested for illegally accessing Senate office; tampering with phone system **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 26, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586 "2010-01-26T23:13:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/261 "2010-06-03T17:58:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Wow. > > So… even if I accept everything preceding “IN LIGHT OF THE ABOVE,” as true, I must reject this second claim. According to this view, O’Keefe now has the Mark of Cain, and is automatically guilty of any future offense? I cannot defend him in this matter because of what he did to ACORN? > > That just doesn’t seem right. “reject this second claim?” Sorry, I’m having trouble following your antecedents. Which “second claim” is it that you feel you are being unfairly being pressured to reject? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/262 "2010-06-03T18:19:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t agree with any of the claims you’ve made there. How do you know he dubbed in fake dialog? How do you know he substituted questions? Because that was the conclusion of the investigators. It’s not my opinion that he dubbed in dialogue. It’s a fact on the record. > [@](#): > > What I believe is substantially true is that he told the ACORN workers that he intended to finance the home mortgage through earnings from prostitution, and that they continued to assist him even after learning this. 1. What is your evidence for this? 2. How do you explain that every investigation cleared them of these charges? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/263 "2010-06-03T18:39:45Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Because that was the conclusion of the investigators. It’s not my opinion that he dubbed in dialogue. It’s a fact on the record. What record is that? > [@](#): > > 1. What is your evidence for this? > 2. How do you explain that every investigation cleared them of these charges? My evidence is the dialog on the tapes, and the difficulty in imagining what could have have come before it to make it be innocent. And what investigations were actually done? Are we talking about the internal ACORN investigation? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/264 "2010-06-03T18:40:46Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > “reject this second claim?” Sorry, I’m having trouble following your antecedents. Which “second claim” is it that you feel you are being unfairly being pressured to reject? This is the second claim: > [@](#): > > I think that anyone who tries to defend O"Keefe in the current matter under discussion is doing so for one of two reasons: > > - Devils’ advocate/ defending a client to the full extent of the law. > - Pure, unadulterated partisanship. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/265 "2010-06-03T18:42:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What record is that? The conclusion of law enforcement investigators and experts. > [@](#): > > My evidence is the dialog on the tapes The dialogue which is proven to have been FAKED. > [@](#): > > And what investigations were actually done? Are we talking about the internal ACORN investigation? No, I’m talking about the actual law enforcement investigations, like that of the California DA, for instance. You should really make an effort to inform yourself about this story before you comment on it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/266 "2010-06-03T18:44:40Z")
By the way, even Breitbart has now admitted the tapes were faked and that he’d been duped. I would have thought you’d be up to date on this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/267 "2010-06-03T18:51:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This is the second claim: > [@](#): > > I think that anyone who tries to defend O"Keefe in the current matter under discussion is doing so for one of two reasons: > > - Devils’ advocate/ defending a client to the full extent of the law. > - Pure, unadulterated partisanship. Ah. Thank you. Poor reading comprehension on my part. Still, are you saying that there’s a third (fourth, fifth, etc.) plausible motivation for being a defender of O’Keefe? It might have been less confusing if you had mentioned what one or more of them would arguably be. I can certainly see how you might consider that to be more trouble than it’s worth, of course, especially around here. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/268 "2010-06-03T18:55:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And what investigations were actually done? Are we talking about the internal ACORN investigation? Independent investigations of the incident by the former Attorney General of Massachusetts, the Brooklyn District Attorney, California’s Attorney General, a federal district court, the Congressional Research Office concluded that ACORN had done nothing illegal, the tapes were doctored, and O’Keefe never posed as a pimp inside ACORN’s offices. [cite](http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/05/28-7) > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > By the way, even Breitbart has now admitted the tapes were faked and that he’d been duped. I would have thought you’d be up to date on this stuff. [The lost CPAC video: Breitbart’s unhinged confession that there was never a pimp in ACORN](http://crooksandliars.com/mike-stark/lost-cpac-breitbart-video-crazy-you-mis) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/269 "2010-06-03T18:58:38Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Still, are you saying that there’s a third (fourth, fifth, etc.) plausible motivation for being a defender of O’Keefe? It might have been less confusing if you had mentioned what one or more of them would arguably be. Here’s a third plausible (but unlikely) motivation, which I did not include out of respect for a fellow poster’s high character: - Totally unaware of the facts of the ACORN case, particularly the fact that independent investigations of the incident by the former Attorney General of Massachusetts, the Brooklyn District Attorney, California’s Attorney General, a federal district court, the Congressional Research Office concluded that ACORN had done nothing illegal, the tapes were doctored, and O’Keefe never posed as a pimp inside ACORN’s offices. Yet willing to argue in the absence of knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/270 "2010-06-03T18:58:58Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > By the way, even Breitbart has now admitted the tapes were faked and that he’d been duped. I would have thought you’d be up to date on this stuff. Really? Why? I don’t think **Bricker** is likely to thnk of Breitbart or O’Keefe twice in a month, except when prompted to by a Pit thread. I certainly don’t see him as having a standing motivation to keep himself up-to-date on this kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/271 "2010-06-03T19:09:26Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Really? Why? I don’t think **Bricker** is likely to thnk of Breitbart or O’Keefe twice in a month, except when prompted to by a Pit thread. I certainly don’t see him as having a standing motivation to keep himself up-to-date on this kind of thing. If a lawyer is arguing a case for a client, and is ignorant of relevant recent facts concerning the case, my sympathies for the lawyer are minimal. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/272 "2010-06-03T19:19:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The conclusion of law enforcement investigators and experts. > > The dialogue which is proven to have been FAKED. > > No, I’m talking about the actual law enforcement investigations, like that of the California DA, for instance. > > You should really make an effort to inform yourself about this story before you comment on it. Well, as much as I respect your ability to neutrally and fairly convey the facts in a matter you’re arguing, maybe a little linky-poo to the results of the California AG’s investigation would help? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/273 "2010-06-03T19:21:38Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > If a lawyer is arguing a case for a client, and is ignorant of relevant recent facts concerning the case, my sympathies for the lawyer are minimal. Meh. I don’t really think of him as arguing a case for a client. I really think he came to check out the latest addition to the thread, saw it as weak sauce, and decided to (per usual, for him) challenge the liberals to show that they weren’t going off half-cocked. I’m okay with waiting until he (O’Keefe) screws up a bit more unambiguously. And I’m pretty confident that he will. He’s just not demonstrated being smart enough not to. In any case, I’m going to stop speculating about/speaking for **Bricker** , now. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/274 "2010-06-03T19:23:45Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Independent investigations of the incident by the former Attorney General of Massachusetts, the Brooklyn District Attorney, California’s Attorney General, a federal district court, the Congressional Research Office concluded that ACORN had done nothing illegal, the tapes were doctored, and O’Keefe never posed as a pimp inside ACORN’s offices. [cite](http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/05/28-7) > > [The lost CPAC video: Breitbart’s unhinged confession that there was never a pimp in ACORN](http://crooksandliars.com/mike-stark/lost-cpac-breitbart-video-crazy-you-mis) I don’t regard the lack of a pimp costume as meaningful. He establishes by dialog that his associate intends to prostitute. So I’m prepared to concede that there was no pimp costume, but not that this admission damages the basic story, which is: O’Keefe told ACORN workers he wanted help getting a mortgage, and that they would be paying that mortgage with money earned from prostitution. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/275 "2010-06-03T19:25:58Z")
No he didn’t. He told them that he was a law student trying to get his girlfriend OUT of prostitution. He never told them he was a pimp. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/276 "2010-06-03T19:39:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t regard the lack of a pimp costume as meaningful. He establishes by dialog that his associate intends to prostitute. So I’m prepared to concede that there was no pimp costume, but not that this admission damages the basic story, which is: O’Keefe told ACORN workers he wanted help getting a mortgage, and that they would be paying that mortgage with money earned from prostitution. By your own words, he presented the video as one of himself, wearing a pimp costume, seeking counsel on how to secure housing using funds from prostitution. This ultimately turned out to be a lie- there was no costume. So why are you so willing to continue to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that everything else he claimed was also true? That’s the most frustrating thing about this whole situation, Bricker. O’Keefe had an agenda, and he lied in support of that agenda. He got caught in a lie… which, in my mind, would make me wonder what else he’s willing to lie about. He has, in effect, become unreliable. And yet many people, such as yourself, are willing to believe that, while yes, he lied, he didn’t lie about the _main thing that he has reason to lie about_. He went in with an agenda to make ACORN look bad. He lied in support of that agenda, and got caught doing so. Why is it so easy for you to assume he told the truth about _anything_? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/277 "2010-06-03T19:49:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t regard the lack of a pimp costume as meaningful. He establishes by dialog that his associate intends to prostitute. So I’m prepared to concede that there was no pimp costume, but not that this admission damages the basic story, which is: O’Keefe told ACORN workers he wanted help getting a mortgage, and that they would be paying that mortgage with money earned from prostitution. And what did ACORN workers do with this information? > [@](#): > > ACORN’s Baltimore office was just one of ten O’Keefe and Giles entered. In most of the offices ACORN’s staff turned the pair away, reported the couple to the police, refused to provide them any aid, and in one case tried to convince the phony prostitute to get counseling. **In no ACORN office did employees file any paperwork on the duo’s behalf.** [cite](http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/05/28-7) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/278 "2010-06-03T19:52:01Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > He went in with an agenda to make ACORN look bad. He lied in support of that agenda, and got caught doing so. Why is it so easy for you to assume he told the truth about _anything_? My guess is that if you are a defense lawyer, you have to go with : OK, so he lied about that. And the other thing. And he lied there. And over there too. BUT! That does not mean that you can say with 100% certainty that he lied on THIS SPECIFIC OCCASION!! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/279 "2010-06-03T19:53:49Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No he didn’t. He told them that he was a law student trying to get his girlfriend OUT of prostitution. He never told them he was a pimp. Well, as much as I respect your ability to neutrally and fairly convey the facts in a matter you’re arguing, maybe a little linky-poo to a cite for this claim would help? Whether he told them he was a pimp or not is not relevant. He told them that the mortgage would be paid from prostitution earnings. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/280 "2010-06-03T19:59:11Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Because that was the conclusion of the investigators. It’s not my opinion that he dubbed in dialogue. It’s a fact on the record. > [@Bricker](#): > > What record is that? > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The conclusion of law enforcement investigators and experts. > > The dialogue which is proven to have been FAKED. > > No, I’m talking about the actual law enforcement investigations, like that of the California DA, for instance. > > You should really make an effort to inform yourself about this story before you comment on it. > [@Bricker](#): > > Well, as much as I respect your ability to neutrally and fairly convey the facts in a matter you’re arguing, maybe a little linky-poo to the results of the California AG’s investigation would help? Like **Bricker** , I presume you’re speaking of the AG, rather than the/a DA. And, like **Bricker** , I’d appreciate a link to a cite. I tried to find one on my own, but I couldn’t locate a money quote with the AG’s report confirming “dubbed dialog.” Could you oblige? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586.md?page=15)