# ACORN "pimp" arrested for illegally accessing Senate office; tampering with phone system **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 26, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586 "2010-01-26T23:13:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/381 "2010-06-04T18:50:26Z")
Moore didn’t fake footage to accuse anybody of crimes and cost thousands of people their jobs just to foster a racist grievance (and pander to the same racism in others). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/382 "2010-06-04T18:53:57Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Do we assume right away that the Maryland law against taping one without their consent is useless? I don’t know. But I also have no idea what exceptions the law allows for, and what defenses O’Keefe could raise if charged. So I am unwilling to declare him guilty without giving him a chance to explain his conduct. > [@](#): > > So when was he arrested or confessed to committing a crime? What does the word “or” mean to you? > [@](#): > > I do remember thinking that Moore did very low things regarding the cuts with the interview he made with Charlton Heston, so I do have my complaints against Moore; so, does that irrelevant (IMO) revelation has anything to do with the issue at hand? > > One key difference to me, is that the targets of Moore can fight back. Just until recently O’Keefs’ targets could do little as Sampiro reported, I do think that we will hear about O’keefe again, but not as looking for news but for \*\*being \*\*the news. > > And once again, this is not about Moore, this is about O’Keefe. No. It’s about whether you believe these standards you’re tossing out or not. And the targets of Moore can fight back? ACORN, a multi-million dollar organization beloved of the Left, can’t fight back? The Department of Commerce can’t fight back? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/383 "2010-06-04T19:00:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’ll tell you why. It’s because Moore’s target is the evil NRA, while O’Keefe’s target is the saintly ACORN. No, it’s because the two examples are not equivalent. Moore is not a saint. He edits footage by removing bits to show his point in the best light. This is not good. I don’t like it. That’s why I don’t like his films - they are too biased for me, and I know they are spun in such a way as to provide the maximum entertainment for a biased point of view. Judicious use of editing is frequently done this way; I don’t like it. O’Keefe on the other hand, actually **ADDED** visuals and audio to **CHANGE** his film to make reality appear different than it was. This is substantively different. O’Keefe BROKE THE LAW by misrepresentation in a subsequent “investigation”. This is not good. If Moore had damaged the NRA with his Bowling for Columbine film, I would be quite pissed. Especially if the entire NRA was entirely destroyed. I may not agree with them in totality, but I recognize that they do good things. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/384 "2010-06-04T19:03:29Z")
**Bricker** , you have been seen to post opinionated things in this thread or post like a complete flaming asshole. Not that I’m in any way, shape or form accusing you of being a complete flaming asshole or anything. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/385 "2010-06-04T19:04:21Z")
Incidentally, on the California case, it was demonstrated that Tresa Kaelke did follow the leading questioning by O’Keefe (It is clear that the brothel item had to come thanks to leading questions or the actions of O’Keefe) but there was a planted item: the ACORN employee played with O’Keefe adding even more outrageous items. > [@](#): > > CA attorney general: An “ACORN worker in San Bernardino caught on to the scheme and played along with it.” In the video of Giles and O’Keefe’s visit to the San Bernardino, California, ACORN office, ACORN organizer Tresa Kaelke gives them phony advice on how to run a brothel and also claims, among other things, that she murdered her ex-husband. During the evening on September 15, 2009, ACORN issued a statement calling the video of O’Keefe and Giles’ interactions with Kaelke an “obvious set of lies and manipulations.” Kaelke stated of the conservative activists who filmed her: “They were not believable. … Somewhat entertaining, but they weren’t even good actors. I didn’t know what to make of them. They were clearly playing with me. I decided to shock them as much as they were shocking me. Like Stephen Colbert does – saying the most outrageous things with a straightface.” In an April 1 press release, California Attorney General Edmund G. Brown Jr. announced the results of his office’s investigation into the ACORN videos and noted that an “ACORN worker in San Bernardino caught on to the scheme and played along with it, claiming among other things that she had murdered her abusive husband. Her two former husbands are alive and well, the Attorney General’s report noted.” The fact that right wingers even attempted to discredit her was enough for me to dismiss their say so’s and O’Keefe. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/386 "2010-06-04T19:04:24Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Moore didn’t fake footage to accuse anybody of crimes and cost thousands of people their jobs just to foster a racist grievance (and pander to the same racism in others). Ah, now we see the goalposts begin their epic transnational journey. Now it’s not just faking… faking is peachy. Now we have to have faking _to accuse people of crimes_. “He faked video, sir!” “What do I care? Did his fakery accuse anyone of a crime, that’s what I want to know!” No, so far as I know, Moore didn’t fake to accuse people of crimes. Oh, wait. Didn’t he accuse Bush of a crime in selling Harken stock before bad news drove down the prices? Yes, he did. And there was the quasi-criminal accusation that Bush, via personal favoiritism, let the Saudis fly home after 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/387 "2010-06-04T19:06:08Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > **Bricker** , you have been seen to post opinionated things in this thread or post like a complete flaming asshole. > > Not that I’m in any way, shape or form accusing you of being a complete flaming asshole or anything. Good. Of course, better would be a question: _Is Bricker known for posting opinionated things or being a complete flaming asshole?_ Answer: yes. Who would disagree with this? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/388 "2010-06-04T19:06:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And the targets of Moore can fight back? ACORN, a multi-million dollar organization beloved of the Left, can’t fight back? Does not matter how “beloved” there were. (and this is horseshit, of course. They were relatively unknown until the right started blowing fuses about them daring to register poor voters who were likely to vote for the "wrong’ party. That’s right, they could not fight back. They were not organized enough to fight a dirty tricks campaign that spun a simple matter of poor training and office organization into a nefarious scheme to destroy the American Way. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/389 "2010-06-04T19:07:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have no idea what he knew before he came to the event. Has he ever been to another one? Is it possible he saw what was going on there and realized he was misinformed? How long did he stay? Ten minutes, ten hours, what? [Lots of info here](http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/james-okeefe-and-white-supremacists). He knew what it was, he helped set it up. He was personal friends with one of the speakers. He was photographed at a table full of white supremacist literature, but it’s unclear whether he was “manning” the table (as Max Blumenthal characterized it) or just sitting at it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/390 "2010-06-04T19:08:10Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > No, it’s because the two examples are not equivalent. > > Moore is not a saint. He edits footage by removing bits to show his point in the best light. This is not good. I don’t like it. That’s why I don’t like his films - they are too biased for me, and I know they are spun in such a way as to provide the maximum entertainment for a biased point of view. Judicious use of editing is frequently done this way; I don’t like it. > > O’Keefe on the other hand, actually **ADDED** visuals and audio to **CHANGE** his film to make reality appear different than it was. This is substantively different. > O’Keefe BROKE THE LAW by misrepresentation in a subsequent “investigation”. This is not good. > > If Moore had damaged the NRA with his Bowling for Columbine film, I would be quite pissed. Especially if the entire NRA was entirely destroyed. I may not agree with them in totality, but I recognize that they do good things. That’s fair. And I have already said I don’t regard what happened to ACORN to be a good result. I didn’t agree with their political goals, but I thought they did good work, especially in the area of housing advocacy. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/391 "2010-06-04T19:10:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And the targets of Moore can fight back? ACORN, a multi-million dollar organization beloved of the Left, can’t fight back? The Department of Commerce can’t fight back? When did I say that I loved ACORN? The point, that \*\*Sampiro \*\*supported, is that indeed the targets of O’Keefe are at a disadvantage. O’Keefe is IMHO just a coward that is finding out what happens when he begins to use his methods against more able targets. (By able I mean targets that have less of a baggage like ACORN had) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/392 "2010-06-04T19:10:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Ah, now we see the goalposts begin their epic transnational journey. Now it’s not just faking… faking is peachy. Now we have to have faking _to accuse people of crimes_. > > “He faked video, sir!” > > “What do I care? Did his fakery accuse anyone of a crime, that’s what I want to know!” > > No, so far as I know, Moore didn’t fake to accuse people of crimes. I’m not aware of Moore faking anything. Cite? He uses some emotional manipulation, but he doesn’t outright fake anything (like dubbing phony dialogue) the way O’Keefe did. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/393 "2010-06-04T19:13:16Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > [Lots of info here](http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/james-okeefe-and-white-supremacists). > > He knew what it was, he helped set it up. He was personal friends with one of the speakers. He was photographed at a table full of white supremacist literature, but it’s unclear whether he was “manning” the table (as Max Blumenthal characterized it) or just sitting at it. I don’t credit this. It’s interesting that he’s never been to any other such events, isn’t it? I mean, if your theory is correct, why wouldn’t you be able to point to more than one instance of a guy at a table? No speeches to the event, nothing except attendance. Sorry. This, I don’t buy. And this coming from a guy who thinks O’keefe’s a dishonest bottom-feeder. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/394 "2010-06-04T19:14:39Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m not aware of Moore faking anything. Cite? He uses some emotional manipulation, but he doesn’t outright fake anything (like dubbing phony dialogue) the way O’Keefe did. His Heston portrayal in Bowling splices together a speech from a year after the fact with two sections of the speech separated by five paragraphs, as I highlighted above. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/395 "2010-06-04T19:18:18Z")
The source for the quote on post #385 Is here: [http://mediamatters.org/research/201006010020](http://mediamatters.org/research/201006010020) So, yeah, I would say that Moore still has not done anything at the levels O’Keefe has fallen to. As it was already pointed out even by Bricker that O’Keefe deserves contempt, I wonder why this thread is still going. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/396 "2010-06-04T19:18:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t credit this. What do you mean you don’t credit it? He admits himself that he was there. He was photographhed there. What don’t you credit? > [@](#): > > It’s interesting that he’s never been to any other such events, isn’t it? I don’t know that he hasn’t, but it would not be surprising at all for him to avoid getting caught at such events now that he’s a public figure. > [@](#): > > I mean, if your theory is correct, why wouldn’t you be able to point to more than one instance of a guy at a table? No speeches to the event, nothing except attendance. More than attendance, he was involved in promotion and execution of the eevnt, and he is buddies with one of the main speakers. And “theory?” What theory? I haven’t propounded any theory. It is a fact that O’Keefe was at this event. He admitted it himself. What exactly are you denying you believe? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/397 "2010-06-04T19:20:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > His Heston portrayal in Bowling splices together a speech from a year after the fact with two sections of the speech separated by five paragraphs, as I highlighted above. So what? That’s not faking anything. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/398 "2010-06-04T19:21:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What do you mean you don’t credit it? He admits himself that he was there. He was photographhed there. What don’t you credit? > > I don’t know that he hasn’t, but it would not be surprising at all for him to avoid getting caught at such events now that he’s a public figure. > > More than attendance, he was involved in promotion and execution of the eevnt, and he is buddies with one of the main speakers. And “theory?” What theory? I haven’t propounded any theory. It is a fact that O’Keefe was at this event. He admitted it himself. What exactly are you denying you believe? The claim that he was involved with promotion and execution of the event is what I deny. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/399 "2010-06-04T19:22:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > So what? That’s not faking anything. Then O’Keefe didn’t fake anything. He said the words he said. Just not at that time. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/400 "2010-06-04T19:24:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The claim that he was involved with promotion and execution of the event is what I deny. The witnesses all say that he was. You’re just sticking your fingers in your ears with this one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586.md?page=21)