# ACORN "pimp" arrested for illegally accessing Senate office; tampering with phone system **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 26, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586 "2010-01-26T23:13:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/401 "2010-06-04T19:28:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Then O’Keefe didn’t fake anything. He said the words he said. Just not at that time. Later his mentor still insisted that > [@](#): > > GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (co-host): As you know – and you did, I have to give you credit for this. On ACORN you did expose people doing things they shouldn’t do, although Jerry Brown points out that they didn’t – you didn’t show any illegality by ACORN. What is – > > BREITBART: Is it illegal to help set up **a prostitution ring in every single office**? If that isn’t illegal, then maybe perhaps we should create some – not helping – they get federal money. You see, that is why the California tape was released also, it followed his narrative of ACORN setting up or supporting prostitution rings. Never-mind if it was demonstrated that it was 100% false in California and dubious elsewhere, O’Keefe and Breitbart still stands by their work. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/402 "2010-06-04T19:30:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s precisely analogous. Affirmative action seeks to make up for past discrimination by providing preferential treatment to minorities. That’s what the bake sale prices highlight. > > I have no idea what he knew before he came to the event. Has he ever been to another one? Is it possible he saw what was going on there and realized he was misinformed? How long did he stay? Ten minutes, ten hours, what? Whatever ideological differences we have I have never for a second doubted your intelligence, and therefore I am not even going to entertain the _possibility_ you really are questioning whether he’s a racist. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/403 "2010-06-04T19:34:51Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Whatever ideological differences we have I have never for a second doubted your intelligence, and therefore I am not even going to entertain the _possibility_ you really are questioning whether he’s a racist. I am seriously questioning whether he’s a racist. I suspect that you and I probably define ‘racist’ a bit differently. For example: is opposition to affirmative action a good indication of racism? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/404 "2010-06-04T19:36:55Z")
Organizing white supremacist events is an indication of racism, so is a career based entirely on race-bating video stunts. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/405 "2010-06-04T19:38:26Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Later his mentor still insisted that > > You see, that is why the California tape was released also, it followed his narrative of ACORN setting up or supporting prostitution rings. Never-mind if it was demonstrated that it was 100% false in California and dubious elsewhere, O’Keefe and Breitbart still stands by their work. Well, clearly Breitbart is saying something misleading there. But again: it’s the kind of thing that gets forgiven if it’s Moore. “What? He just asked if it was legal to set up prostitution rings in every office. He never said that what actually happened.” He created an inference, the way ordinary people communicate. What he wanted you to hear was, “No, they did do something illegal. In every single office, they helped set up a prostitution ring.” But he said something that was a question, not a statement. Does that count as a lie? Sure it should. For EVERYONE who uses that tactic. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/406 "2010-06-04T19:39:56Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Organizing white supremacist events is an indication of racism, so is a career based entirely on race-bating video stunts. 1. I deny he organized the event. 2. The only race-baiting stunt attributed to O’Keefe is the bake sale. Neither the ACORN stunt or the Landrieu stunt has anything to do with race. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/407 "2010-06-04T19:42:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But again: it’s the kind of thing that gets forgiven if it’s Moore. Again, I do not forgive Moore when he does misleading things. Your debating points are really pitiful. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/408 "2010-06-04T19:45:11Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The witnesses all say that he was. You’re just sticking your fingers in your ears with this one. What witnesses? We have Daryle Jenkins saying he was sitting at the table. You have somebody named Isis saying it was obvious that he was “helping the execution,” but she doesn’t say how he was doing that. She takes the time to draw an analogy of putting out plates and cups, but she never says what O’Keefe was doing that was similar or analogous to putting out plates and cups. Nothing either witness says makes this true. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/409 "2010-06-04T19:46:14Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Again, I do not forgive Moore when he does misleading things. Your debating points are really pitiful. And again: I do not defend O’Keefe when he does misleading things. So what are we arguing about, precisely? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/410 "2010-06-04T19:48:53Z")
O’Keefe is a lying, criminal asshole, who used doctored overdubbed footage to destroy an organization that was registering voters who tended to vote for the “wrong” party. Continually whining “but but but Moore is a stinky arsehole too!” does not change that fact. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/411 "2010-06-04T19:49:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And again: I do not defend O’Keefe when he does misleading things. So what are we arguing about, precisely? I think it is your efforts to argument Ad nauseam how those misleading acts should be also acknowledged as being done by Michael Moore. (And therefore, an attempt to minimize what O’Keefe and their ilk are doing) Still a very pitiful effort. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/412 "2010-06-04T20:50:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > See, this is interesting. My opponents are apparently not required to answer these sorts of questions honestly, but I am. I’m sure I could find one of my kids’ old pacifiers around here somewhere. > [@Bricker](#): > > But I don’t believe the majority of objectors to O’Keefe truly believe that conduct is _per se_ improper, **Hamlet** , because when someone engages in that same sort of conduct targeting a left-approved target, like the NRA, there aren’t nearly the the sorts of righteous anger in play. So while I agree that your summary is accurate, I don’t agree that this ends the inquiry. It doesn’t end the enquiry if you have your heart set on playing the “someone else does it too” card. If you’re interested in how ACORN was targeted and treated, it’s not really necessary at all. > [@Bricker](#): > > How about I ask for a little unvarnished honesty in return: does Moore engage in much the same sorts of tactics (witchhunt, blowing up small instances of misconduct through selective editing, targeting a group he disgarees with politically)? Why is Moore defended with vigor by many posters here? They seem to be answering you already. To me, much of it comes down to what the consequences of the actions taken by O’Keefe and Moore are. Because of (in part) O’Keefe’s actions (and subsequent slathering right wing witch-hunt), ACORN was (ruled to be) unconstitutionally defunded and all but closed. Moore’s actions have … made him a lot of money. I’m not seeing the consequences as dire. And I still just shake my head at how some companies can get away with murder, bribery, theft, and fraud and not raise a hair on a certain political’s party’s head; but a few employees of ACORN act unprofessionally and they get defunded. Had O’Keefe simply played his entire, unedited tapes and stated, as you did, that he found evidence that less than .01% of ACORN’s employees acting inappropriately unprofessionally, I’d just point and laugh at him in his pimp suit. But he didn’t. He was dishonest and fanned the flames of the unthinking right wingers who hated ACORN, which led to their defunding. Moore may be dishonest too, but I haven’t seen GM close, health care in America suffer, the NRA get banned, or Bush get indicted. Granted Moore’s not targeting his work rabid partisans bent on destroying those who disagree with him politically, though. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/413 "2010-06-04T21:55:04Z")
Bored now. P.S. Someone let me know when (not “if”) Young Master O’Keefe unambiguously crosses a line and is caught violating his probation. As I stated above, he’s just not smart enough not to. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/414 "2010-06-04T22:10:52Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Bored now. > > P.S. Someone let me know when (not “if”) Young Master O’Keefe unambiguously crosses a line and is caught violating his probation. As I stated above, he’s just not smart enough not to. I predict when he does, it will somehow be Michael Moore’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/415 "2010-06-04T22:18:19Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Had O’Keefe simply played his entire, unedited tapes and stated, as you did, that he found evidence that less than .01% of ACORN’s employees acting inappropriately unprofessionally, I’d just point and laugh at him in his pimp suit. But he didn’t. He was dishonest and fanned the flames of the unthinking right wingers who hated ACORN, which led to their defunding. Moore may be dishonest too, but I haven’t seen GM close, health care in America suffer, the NRA get banned, or Bush get indicted. Granted Moore’s not targeting his work rabid partisans bent on destroying those who disagree with him politically, though. So Moore is an OK guy… because he’s not good at what he does? So one more honest answer, please: if Moore HAD managed to light a flame that thousands of NRA members quitting in disgust, or in some other way put a serious hurt on the organization… THEN you would have risen up in loud condemnation of him? And you have have expected others on the left to do so too? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/416 "2010-06-04T22:20:35Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > O’Keefe is a lying, criminal asshole, who used doctored overdubbed footage to destroy an organization that was registering voters who tended to vote for the “wrong” party. > > Continually whining “but but but Moore is a stinky arsehole too!” does not change that fact. If you’re such a dim bulb that despite repeated explanations of the relevance of Moore, this is the best summary you can come up with… then you’re a dim bulb indeed. Or, option 2, you attended the O’Keefe/Moore School of Presentation Management and you know exactly what the actual argument is. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/417 "2010-06-04T22:51:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If you’re such a dim bulb that despite repeated explanations of the relevance of Moore, this is the best summary you can come up with… then you’re a dim bulb indeed. > > Or, option 2, you attended the O’Keefe/Moore School of Presentation Management and you know exactly what the actual argument is. Sorry, I don’t engage in insult contests. If you have not been able to grasp that the equivalency between Moore and O’Keefe is too small to be of any use, then there is nothing more to be said. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/418 "2010-06-04T23:09:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So Moore is an OK guy… because he’s not good at what he does? A dishonest interpretation, a strawman and rampant stupidity in just one short sentence. How utterly. … Bad Bricker-like. > [@Bricker](#): > > So one more honest answer, please: if Moore HAD managed to light a flame that thousands of NRA members quitting in disgust, or in some other way put a serious hurt on the organization… THEN you would have risen up in loud condemnation of him? And you have have expected others on the left to do so too? Did those happen and I missed it, or are we off in another of your hypothetical lala lands? In this fancyland of yours, did the US government stop supporting the NRA, leading to its disbanding? Did the Congress vote to stop funding for the NRA? Or is it just a bunch of people believing Moore’s bullshit and stopping being members in a voluntary organization? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/419 "2010-06-04T23:59:38Z")
Michael Moore makes movies which some people find entertaining, and which tend to support his agenda of making Conservatives look bad. He’s been known to stretch the truth and exaggerate in service to this agenda. As a result, some organizations he’s targeted have… well, gotten bad press. He’s embarrassed a few people involved in those organizations. O’Keefe, on the other hand, demonstrably lied, arguably broke the law, and as a result has driven a non-profit company which helped the poor organize and vote out of business, all in service to \*his \*agenda. I guess I’m not really seeing the parallels. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586/420 "2010-06-05T00:47:40Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > I guess I’m not really seeing the parallels. Welcome to the dim-bulb, getting gratuitously insulted club I guess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-pimp-arrested-for-illegally-accessing-senate-office-tampering-with-phone-system/526586.md?page=22)