# ACORN submits fraudulent voter registrations en masse **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 8, 2008, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984 "2008-10-08T13:55:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/1 "2008-10-08T13:55:37Z")
In these forums (fora, for the more pretentious), the merest hint about the latest negative story concerning Palin had at least one, and often multiple, threads within the hour. (Whatever happened to the phony pregnancy story, anyway?) But when real news comes along, crickets chirp – if the real news is unfavorable to the left, that is. I reach this provocative and shocking conclusion by noting that we have no GD thread yet on the rampant ACORN-assisted voter fraud attempts. I am pleased to be able to fix this … oversight … on the part of other, usually-eagled-eyed political observers. [In Nevada](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/07/acorn_nevada_offices_raided.html), the offices of ACORN have been hard at work registering people for Bracak Obama. (I mean – registering disadvantaged voters. I’m sure ACORN doesn’t care who they vote for. :rolleyes: ) > [@The Washington Post](#): > > The submitted voter cards included addresses and names that do not exist in Nevada, duplicate registrations, names culled from telephone books and names of Dallas Cowboys players, an investigator for the Secretary of State alleged in his affidavit for a search warrant. > > One ex-employee of ACORN reached by the state investigator told him she began making up names for her forms on days when it was too hot to work outside. ACORN canvassers are paid by the hour. Ex-employees also said they were expected to collect 20 complete forms a shift or risk probation and termination, the investigator said in his affidavit. So – issue for debate: is this racism on the part of Nevada investigators, or just plain fascism? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/2 "2008-10-08T14:01:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So – issue for debate: is this racism on the part of Nevada investigators, or just plain fascism? Is that my only choice, one or the other? Sounds like monkey business to me, but that hardly rises to the level of fascism, and I don’t see where your charge of racism is supported. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/3 "2008-10-08T14:02:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In these forums (fora, for the more pretentious), the merest hint about the latest negative story concerning Palin had at least one, and often multiple, threads within the hour. (Whatever happened to the phony pregnancy story, anyway?) > > But when real news comes along, crickets chirp – if the real news is unfavorable to the left, that is. > > I reach this provocative and shocking conclusion by noting that we have no GD thread yet on the rampant ACORN-assisted voter fraud attempts. I am pleased to be able to fix this … oversight … on the part of other, usually-eagled-eyed political observers. What’s your stance on the Nevada well-poisoning scandal? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/4 "2008-10-08T14:07:34Z")
Sounds like they had a bunch of canvassers who were playing games rather than do the hard work actually involved in going to talk to people face to face. The canvassers were probably paid a small amount per signature and they chose to forge some. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/5 "2008-10-08T14:08:59Z")
False dilemma. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/6 "2008-10-08T14:10:41Z")
Sorry Bricker, didn’t you get the memo that the SDMB is part of the “Librul Media”? Why isn’t this crap in the pit? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/7 "2008-10-08T14:10:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So – issue for debate: is this racism on the part of Nevada investigators, or just plain fascism? Since when does fraud have to be either racist or fascist? ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/8 "2008-10-08T14:12:14Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Sounds like they had a bunch of canvassers who were playing games rather than do the hard work actually involved in going to talk to people face to face. The canvassers were probably paid a small amount per signature and they chose to forge some. Nice try, bucko. As **Bricker** has expertly exposed, this is obviously a vast left wing conspiracy to steal the election for Barack Obama in November! > [@Bricker](#): > > So – issue for debate: is this racism on the part of Nevada investigators, or just plain fascism? Obviously Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers are involved somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/9 "2008-10-08T14:13:13Z")
I, **Pashnish Ewing** , do hereby reject, denounce, and rebuke the actions of the Nevada Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/10 "2008-10-08T14:14:17Z")
First, it’s always very weak to open with a complaint that “topic x” isn’t discussed here. Either discuss it or don’t. Everyone, I assume, has equal access to the new thread button. Second, is ACORN running for Vice President? Is ACORN, in fact, a historically unqualified and silly candidate for Vice President? You seem to imply that Palin and ACORN are in and of themselves equally newsworthy. Bzzzt! Finally, I would say it’s either facist racism, or racist fascism. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/11 "2008-10-08T14:14:25Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > False dilemma. Yup. (1) ACORN and its canvassers were doing the wrong thing, at least in part, and ACORN needs to supervise its canvassers more closely. (2) All voter registrations should be checked by the state, whether they come from ACORN or anybody else. (3) Is their any likelihood that, if accepted, people would have been voting based on these false applications for voter registration? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/12 "2008-10-08T14:17:30Z")
[ACORN’s response:](http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/acorn-statement-nevada-secretary-state/story.aspx?guid=%7B3D30F7AB-C469-427E-A950-1D361B673B72%7D&dist=hppr) > [@](#): > > "Over the past year, ACORN has worked hard to help over 80,000 people in Clark County register to vote. As part of our nonpartisan voter registration program, we have reviewed all the applications submitted by our canvassers. When we have identified suspicious applications, we have separated them out and flagged them for election officials. We have zero tolerance for fraudulent registrations. We immediately dismiss employees we suspect of submitting fraudulent registrations. > > For the past 10 months, any time ACORN has identified a potentially fraudulent application, we turn that application into election officials separately and offer to provide election officials with the information they would need to pursue an investigation or prosecution of the individual. > > Election officials routinely ignored this information and failed to act. In early July, ACORN asked to meet with election officials to express our concerns that they were not acting on information ACORN had presented to them. ACORN met with Clark County elections officials and a representative of the Secretary of State on July 17th. ACORN pleaded with them to take our concerns about fraudulent applications seriously. One week later, elections officials asked us to provide them with a second copy of what we had previously provided to them. ACORN responded by giving election officials copies of 46 “problem application packages,” which involved 33 former canvassers. > > On September 23, ACORN had received a subpoena dated September 19th requesting information on 15 employees, all of whom had been included in the packages we had previously submitted to election officials. ACORN provided our personnel records on these 15 employees on September 29. > Today’s raid by the Secretary of State’s Office is a stunt that serves no useful purpose other than discredit our work registering Nevadans and distracting us from the important work ahead of getting every eligible voter to the polls." ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/13 "2008-10-08T14:18:05Z")
ACORN pays per registration form and they tehd to hire the unhirable. ACORN tends to deal in the extremes. They register tons of folks and wipe entire areas off the map as far as voter registration is considered. I’ll go into more detail after the election. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/14 "2008-10-08T14:18:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But when real news comes along, crickets chirp – if the real news is unfavorable to the left, that is. Until our able and dedicated team of SDMB right-wing partisans get on the job, that is: good work! Why are you so bent out of shape about the completely unsurprising and reasonable fact that left-wing partisans are the ones who are quick to point out malfeasance by those on the right, while right-wing partisans are the ones who are quick to point out malfeasance by those on the left? Keeping the opposition honest by quickly calling attention to its shortcomings is a good thing. Expecting the opposition to be faster than its adversaries at keeping **itself** honest is kind of silly, and I certainly don’t see the right-wing partisans around here living up to that standard themselves. > [@Bricker](#): > > I reach this provocative and shocking conclusion by noting that we have no GD thread yet on the rampant ACORN-assisted voter fraud attempts. Um, “rampant”? Your article says that the office of the Nevada Secretary of State and Attorney General alleges that ACORN canvassers submitted “nearly 300 apparently fraudulent voter registration cards” as part of a voter registration drive that registered 80,000 new voters in Clark County, Nevada. Now mind you, if it turns out to be true that even **one** of the submitted voter registration cards was actually fraudulent, I think that’s disgraceful and deplorable and a bad mark on ACORN’s record. However, I’m not sure that 300 fraudulent cards out of 80,000 submitted in one Nevada county justifies the term “rampant”. Or if you insist that it does, I presume you will agree to describe Republican attempts at vote suppression as “rampant” if some Republican commissioner in some county somewhere illegally knocks a few hundred Democrats off the voter rolls? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/15 "2008-10-08T14:19:19Z")
If the reason that this story hasn’t been posted can only be because of the inherent bias here, what explains that it hasn’t been posted by the more right-leaning members of the board? Surely they would have every reason to post this story, yet they did not just as lefty Dopers did not. If there is a reason why right-leaning posters didn’t put up the story - a reason that cannot by nature be to hide news which is unfavourable to the left - then surely it is possible that the story went unposted by lefties for the same reason? ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/16 "2008-10-08T14:19:42Z")
Well I don’t make a habit of seeking out and submitting RO stories from either side of the spectrum. What the employees did was wrong. It stems from a bad policy set up by ACORN where the workers were obligated to get the a set number of signatures come hell or high water. But it doesn’t mean that ACORN itself did anything illegal. In fact, the article itself says: > [@](#): > > ACORN officials said they were stunned by the search because they had unilaterally identified and flagged suspicious voter registration cards to the county elections board starting in July and had been cooperating with authorities to cull bad information and fire workers who collected that information, said Brian Mellor, senior counsel for Project Vote. And can we talk about organizations that just string together random words to form an anacronym that makes another word. Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now? Really? Just stop it. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/17 "2008-10-08T14:21:10Z")
I’m interested to see what comes of it. Some of the quotes in the article seem a bit out of line with the facts. For instance, they indicate 300 fraudulent registrations out of 80,000. This is worth raising some eyebrows, but I’m not sure it warrants a raid. But then ACORN fires off with “… ACORN and its critics… exchange charges of political maneuvering in a battleground state that voted Republican in the 2004 presidential election but is considered in play for November.” That’s kind of ridiculous, given this: > [@](#): > > ACORN officials said they were stunned by the search because they had unilaterally identified and flagged suspicious voter registration cards to the county elections board starting in July and had been cooperating with authorities to cull bad information and fire workers who collected that information. If they were cooperating, why the raid? Were they not _really_ cooperating? If they were cooperating, why would they jump to accuse the otherside of _mere politics_ in the raid? Both sides seem to stink here, a little. > [@](#): > > Henderson said many voters registered through ACORN are “working people and people of color and there may be corners of the political world where a high injection of new voters like those is unsettling some.” This is ridiculous. But then I read this: > [@](#): > > “It is very difficult to ascribe any other motive to the activities of ACORN other than to swamp the system with registrations cards” that range from illegible to being drawn from names from telephone listings or other public directories, said RNC Chief Counsel Sean Cairncross. Yeah, getting people to vote is a fucking conspiracy. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/18 "2008-10-08T14:22:02Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > The canvassers were probably paid a small amount per signature and they chose to forge some. ACORN’s spokesperson said that they are paid by the hour, not the name, so that would not seem to be an issue. In addition, in the [CBS story](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/07/cbsnews_investigates/main4508170.shtml?source=mostpop_story), > [@](#): > > In an official statement, ACORN Interim Chief Organizer, Bertha Lewis, called today’s raid “a stunt” and said it “serves no useful purpose other than discredit our work registering Nevadans and distracting us from the important work ahead of getting every eligible voter to the polls.” Lewis says any time ACORN “identified a potentially fraudulent application” they notified election officials. But, Lewis claims Nevada election officials “routinely ignored” ACORN’s concerns and “failed to act.” So we have the Democrat Nevada Secretary of State launching a probe into reports that a (presumably Democrat-leaning) organization may have been involved in voter registration fraud, a statement from the organization that they have been reporting their own concerns and being ignored, and the story breaks while most folks’ attention is focused on the presidential debate, and the (apparently) Democrat-leaning TM are supposed to be ashamed that they have not yet begun discussing it and the only two silly options given to debate are that we must choose between the investigators being racists or neo-Nazis. **Bricker** , are we going to see you melt down this way every four years? There is a legitimate debate to be had to discuss whether actual voter fraud is more likely to arrive through the likes of ACORN or the likes of Diebolt, but this is not the best way to kick off that discussion. I’m sorely tempted to send this to the **Pit** , although I’ll give it some time to see how it shakles out. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/19 "2008-10-08T14:22:06Z")
This is the **Bricker** who decided not to vote for Obama because he couldn’t raise the level of national discourse, right? Fraud’s fraud and it’s terrible. Impeaching the integrity of the board because of a development most of us probably haven’t heard of in the first place (I know I haven’t) isn’t exactly one of my favorite things either. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/20 "2008-10-08T14:25:34Z")
**Bricker** , is there evidence that ACORN actually planned to have people go to the polls and vote under these fraudulent names? It does not seem so from the information at hand. It looks like the efforts of one or more lazy employees to pad their time cards. If there was a plot to actually commit voter fraud you’ve got something. If they were just turning in fake names to make it look like they were working that’s a different kind of fraud, like ghost employment or something. Surely you don’t expect the SDMB to rise up in anger over every case of ghost employment in the country, do you? When come back, bring evidence of actual voter fraud, or an attempt at same. Otherwise, this is waaay lame. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984.md?page=2)