# ACORN submits fraudulent voter registrations en masse **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 8, 2008, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984 "2008-10-08T13:55:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/261 "2008-10-10T20:54:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Who, apart from ACORN itself, is saying that it flagged the suspect registrations? Would the [county clerk in one of the problem areas](http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/09/stealing-the-el.html) be good enough? > [@](#): > > **She said some of the red-flagged registration cards in Bernalillo County were caught by ACORN’s own quality-control process** and turned over to the County Clerk’s Office, though she didn’t know offhand how many of the 1,100 were flagged by that group. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/262 "2008-10-10T21:00:16Z")
If that’s not sufficient, how about the [Director of Registrations for a completely different county](http://progressillinois.com/2008/10/10/vilifying-acorn-without-facts)? > [@](#): > > According to Regina Harris, the Director of Registrations for Lake County, this claim checks out. “It’s certainly true. They did have three batches separated.” she told me this morning. "There was a pile they knew were good, there was some they said had missing info – like no voter ID number or a missing birthday – and another batch they called ‘suspicious.’ " ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/263 "2008-10-10T21:23:12Z")
> [@5-4-Fighting](#): > > Who, apart from ACORN itself, could? But since it is the law that they have to do so and everything, and with you being man of the law, doesn’t it kind of make sense that that’s more likely what happened? Especially with all those potential criminal penalties and all. Well, in the affidavit the investigator filed in support of the application for a search warrant, there is no mention of this claim, and that was a claim made under oath, as opposed to a claim made in a press release. A self-serving claim, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/264 "2008-10-10T21:24:13Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > Would the [county clerk in one of the problem areas](http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/09/stealing-the-el.html) be good enough? Well, no, since “…he didn’t know offhand how many of the 1,100 were flagged by that group.” 918 flagged? That’s reasonable. 22 flagged? Not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/265 "2008-10-10T21:27:23Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > If that’s not sufficient, how about the [Director of Registrations for a completely different county](http://progressillinois.com/2008/10/10/vilifying-acorn-without-facts)? Well, since we’ve all already agreed that the entire ACORN organization is not likely to be involved in any conspiracy, no – the exoneration of a completely different ACORN group is not probative of the issue under discussion here. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/266 "2008-10-10T21:28:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > A self-serving claim, by the way. How _does_ the investigator earn his pay? Does he have a quota, like traffic cops? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/267 "2008-10-10T21:30:58Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > Would the [county clerk in one of the problem areas](http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/09/stealing-the-el.html) be good enough? Tell you what: if you really want to submit that link as authority on the subject, OK. Are you sure, though? 'Cause it leads off with: “Why voter fraud matters. Big time. Why is the media ignoring this? Every voter registered by ACORN should be voided.” Which seems to me to be a tad intemperate. But, hey, it’s your link. I can only assume you stand by it _in toto_. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/268 "2008-10-10T21:33:02Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > How _does_ the investigator earn his pay? Does he have a quota, like traffic cops? No, he doesn’t have a quota. And his claims are made under oath and subject to penalties for perjury. The criminal penalty for making a false statement press release … doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/269 "2008-10-10T21:46:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, since we’ve all already agreed that the entire ACORN organization is not likely to be involved in any conspiracy, no – the exoneration of a completely different ACORN group is not probative of the issue under discussion here. JFC, then how about [the fucking Secretary of State](http://news.aol.com/elections/article/acorn-office-raided-in-fraud-probe/203749) that actually initiated the raid? > [@](#): > > “You don’t have to read too many cop novels to know that sometimes people will tell you a grain of truth to try to hide the rest of the truth,” Walsh said. “I’m certainly not suggesting that ACORN is that nefarious, but at the same time just because \*\*they handed over 50 to you \*\*doesn’t mean there aren’t 150 others out there.” ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/270 "2008-10-10T21:49:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Tell you what: if you really want to submit that link as authority on the subject, OK. > > Are you sure, though? > > 'Cause it leads off with: “Why voter fraud matters. Big time. Why is the media ignoring this? Every voter registered by ACORN should be voided.” > > Which seems to me to be a tad intemperate. But, hey, it’s your link. I can only assume you stand by it _in toto_. Why should he? If the guy said in his article that, “2+2=4” can he not agree with that part without agreeing to the rest? Particularly since the quote is citing, presumably, a fact and the parts you listed sound like commentary. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/271 "2008-10-10T22:00:20Z")
[Here](http://www.tristateobserver.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=10523) is the actual article about New Mexico and ACORN that seems to be the one quoted in that blog comment upthread. It was originally in the Albuquerque Journal, but reprinted in a couple of different papers. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/272 "2008-10-10T22:01:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Tell you what: if you really want to submit that link as authority on the subject, OK. Absolutely, since it’s just a copy of a newspaper article that requires registration to read directly. Knock yourself out by registering and read it [here](http://www.abqjournal.com/news/state/171016264947newsstate09-17-08.htm) if you think the quoted text is bogus. > [@](#): > > Are you sure, though? Ooooh, the ominous “Are you sure, though?” gotchaya lead in. Sorry, still sure. > [@](#): > > 'Cause it leads off with: “Why voter fraud matters. Big time. Why is the media ignoring this? Every voter registered by ACORN should be voided.” There’s this newfangled thing call a “blog”, short for “weblog”, in which a variety of different articles, opinion pieces, rants, etc. can be submitted. This particular one even allows submissions by various parties. > [@](#): > > Which seems to me to be a tad intemperate. But, hey, it’s your link. I can only assume you stand by it _in toto_. Oh, almost got me. When you make the same insinuation the third time, I start to rethink my stance. Well, not really. If Michelle Malkin reprints a newspaper article, I’m probably going to accept that she didn’t change the text of it in the process, and will happily link to it as a location where one might read the article without registering. That doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that the rest of her blog might be a steaming pile of fried diarrhea pellets. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/273 "2008-10-10T22:04:11Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Also, you may have missed earlier that in Nevada, at least, people registering others to vote MUST submit EVERY registration. If you stand before a person registering you and you write in “Mickey Mouse, Magic Castle, Disneyland” they simply MUST submit that to the state. This point keeps getting skipped and it’s the most relevant point in the whole damned thread. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/274 "2008-10-10T22:14:09Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > This point keeps getting skipped and it’s the most relevant point in the whole damned thread. Oh, yes! Nevada Republicans got in trouble over this back in 2004: [Nevada investigates voter registration](http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/14/nevada.registration/) > [@](#): > > Nevada election officials have launched an investigation into allegations that a Republican-led voter registration drive improperly disposed of forms it collected from potential Democratic voters. > > Secretary of State Dean Heller said Wednesday that his office was reviewing the allegations, first raised Tuesday in a report by CNN affiliate KLAS-TV in Las Vegas. > > “We are researching state and federal law to determine what violations may have occurred,” Heller said in a statement. “If, in fact, the allegations are true and federal law has been broken, all efforts will be made to prosecute the individuals and/or the organization responsible.” > > The probe centers around a private voter registration firm, Voter Outreach of America, which collected registrations from voters in Nevada, a pivotal presidential battleground state. The company was set up by Sproul & Associates Inc., a Republican political consulting firm based in Phoenix, Arizona. > > Under Nevada law, private canvassing efforts – even those run by partisan groups – must turn in all voter registration forms they collect, regardless of the party affiliation of those registering. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/275 "2008-10-10T22:16:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised if these registrations were the first part of a massive conspiracy to bus people from precinct to precinct on voting day, armed with their fake information, ready to vote and cry foul if they’re prevented because they don’t have ID. And _I_ wouldn’t be surprised if these bogus registrations were the work of GOP operatives who got themselves into the ACORN sign-up queue and deliberately filled out bullshit paperwork, knowing that ACORN would be obligated by law to submit the forms, which they could then point to later as evidence that ACORN is trying to defraud the system, because that’s just the sort of shitty tactic the GOP has become known for. There we are. Poisoning the discussion with empty speculation, offering a scenario that is buffered by a lawyerly blanket of semantic nonsense, and that while just as plausible as the alternative, if not more so, is supported by an equal amount of evidence, that is, none, which therefore means it has has equal weight, and which thus balances the paranoia on the other side. Parity met. Argument over. Can we go now? ---
**Author:** ![Kyrie\_Eleison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kyrie_eleison/32/7682_2.png) [@Kyrie\_Eleison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyrie_Eleison)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/276 "2008-10-10T22:16:50Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > This point keeps getting skipped and it’s the most relevant point in the whole damned thread. Damn straight. And even if some screwball state does not legally require voter registration organizations to turn in every application, the organization would be foolish not to do so anyway. Much, much better to turn in a few fraudulent applications than to put your non-governmental agency in the position of deciding which applications to accept and which to reject. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/277 "2008-10-10T22:20:00Z")
Every time there’s a thread on voter fraud, voter suppression, voter intimidation, the requirement of photo ID for voting, Diebold machines, or anything related, I point out that nobody on this Board has yet posted evidence that “voter fraud” is a real problem in America today. And now, after six pages of this thread, that remains the case. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/278 "2008-10-10T22:21:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Every time there’s a thread on voter fraud, voter suppression, voter intimidation, the requirement of photo ID for voting, Diebold machines, or anything related, I point out that nobody on this Board has yet posted evidence that “voter fraud” is a real problem in America today. And now, after six pages of this thread, that remains the case. Yes – when you get to define “real problem,” I suppose it’s pretty easy to win those sorts of contests. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/279 "2008-10-10T22:22:59Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > And _I_ wouldn’t be surprised if these bogus registrations were the work of GOP operatives who got themselves into the ACORN sign-up queue and deliberately filled out bullshit paperwork, knowing that ACORN would be obligated by law to submit the forms, which they could then point to later as evidence that ACORN is trying to defraud the system, because that’s just the sort of shitty tactic the GOP has become known for. > > There we are. Poisoning the discussion with empty speculation, offering a scenario that is buffered by a lawyerly blanket of semantic nonsense, and that while just as plausible as the alternative, if not more so, is supported by an equal amount of evidence, that is, none, which therefore means it has has equal weight, and which thus balances the paranoia on the other side. Parity met. Argument over. > > Can we go now? Dude. Did you _read_ the remainder of the post that you quoted? Did you understand it – the part you left out, that is? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/280 "2008-10-10T22:24:44Z")
Of course. And being a lawyer, and being such a stickler for lawyerly precision in the various arguments here in GD (enforced on others, of course, while you fiddle away in the margins), you knew _exactly_ what you were doing. Introduce a note of suspicion, conspiracy, malfeasance. Then wave your hands and wish it away. Dissolve the poison pill in the drink, and then blink innocently: where’d it go? Give me a break. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984.md?page=15)