# ACORN submits fraudulent voter registrations en masse **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 8, 2008, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984 "2008-10-08T13:55:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/461 "2008-10-15T03:42:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Now, if they follow them, then they cannot submit unflagged fake voters with ease, which means they can quickly identify and fire the canvassers that submitted them – which in turn makes it less likely that the canvasser will risk it, since now, instead of months going by, he’s discovered and fired almost instantly. And voter ID requirements remove any temptation the virtuous icons of ACORN might have to submit fake names on purpose. Everything works as intended. While I’m hesitant to return to this stupid thread (only saved by the fact that **magellan01** started an even more insipid OP in this forum), this is completely idiotic. I, a registration agent, hand the form to someone, who fills it out out of my frame of vision, seals it (they do seal, at least where I live), and hands it back. I’m now supposed to initial it, and get punished if they put bogus shit in it? I’d love to see the prosecutor handle that one. Hell, I’d kick his ass in court and I’m not even a lawyer. As for this someone having anything to do with your hard-on for a Voter ID, I’ll repeat again, how’s that work with absentee ballots? If you want to eliminate absentee voting for everyone, including members of the military, I’ll certainly entertain that prospect. Let me know how your fellow conservatives feel about that one. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/462 "2008-10-15T03:46:49Z")
My oldest son worked for the elections office in King County (Washington) for three years. I asked him what they do in King County to weed out duplicate or fraudulent registrations. Here’s what he said: > [@](#): > > Reports are run on various combinations of possible duplicates: > > Similar name, same DOB, same address > > Same name, different DOB, same address > > And so on. > > And then a person goes through those reports line by line, checking to see if there were typos created by people when the reg forms were process > > In addition, Washington State Voter Registration Database receives several updates each year to the Felon and Deceased Voter List from the 39 counties. > > It’s hard to create a duplicate, but not impossible. And almost all of the duplicates I found there were created by people that had no idea that they were creating a duplicate. > > **In my three years as a full-time employee there, I found 8,513 duplicates. About 25-30 voted twice in an election and that’s spread out over the last nine years.** > > The office also takes into account how many people are older folks who vote by absentee and then when election day rolls around, they forget about the mail-in ballot and try to go to the polls to get a ballot in. When that happens, they count only the first one processed. > > The registration process is people processing forms filled out by people. Mistakes are bound to happen, but almost all of them are unintentional – and not to the extent that election results can be changed – unless you’re Katherine Harris or Ken Blackwell. I asked if he’d had any experience with ACORN. > [@](#): > > As for ACORN, I believe a lot of their problems would be solved if they would only stop paying volunteers by the number of registration forms turned in. In October of 2006, the office received a beaten-up box of about 1,000 registration forms. It was received one day after the 30-day statewide “too late transfer between counties or change addresses” deadline so they were going to be on hold until after the November election certified. There was an article in the Times during that first week from an ACORN rep who said he was going to sue King County because we had denied the forms due to the fact that had arrived via a method that disqualified them (I think because it was delivered by UPS and not the USPS so there was no postmark). > > When a co-worker and I went through the box and found that a large percentage of them were filled out by people who did not exist as King County voters (almost all of them said they lived at homeless shelters – which is legal, but the names included half of the then-Sonics rosters and Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert). Almost none of them included drivers’ licenses. When we separated them by a set of initials at the top (how ACORN was able to tell how much to pay who), we noticed that the signatures were written in the same color pen and in almost identical style. We told ACORN about it and they decided not to sue us, after all. > > It also seemed that they didn’t do thorough background checks of the people who caused the trouble in 2006. Almost all of them had previous arrest records. Some of them left the state when the word about the reg fraud got out. Those who didn’t leave went to jail. > > ACORN needs to pay by the hour, not the reg form and they need to try harder to make sure that they’re hiring good people, but if the Republicans wouldn’t try so hard to keep people from voting (misleading flyers – like what just happened in Philadelphia-- or just plain not giving people the info they need to register) then there wouldn’t be so many other groups trying to counter them. > > **It also seems hypocritical to me that Republicans sound like they care about voter fraud and then Katherine Harris works with ChoicePoint to remove legitimate voters from the rolls (by the tens of thousands) just because their last names were close to those of felons.** Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/463 "2008-10-15T04:14:10Z")
Your eldest seems a nice enough young man, aside from his pro-felon agenda. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/464 "2008-10-15T04:25:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > False dilemma. We can do both – target fake voters and improper tactics. It was not a false dilemma. I specifically noted that the decision was based on where to spend funds. Given the current economic situation, it seems to me that we would get much better bang for the buck going after state officers who have demonstrably skewed elections than hypothetical mobs of multiple-vote poor folks. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/465 "2008-10-15T04:32:59Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > it seems to me that we would get much better bang for the buck going after state officers who have demonstrably skewed elections… Don’t forget party officials like James Tobin: [2002 GOP phone jamming in NH leads to new charges](http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gpziglTzKEL0hFAxQf4ShPDRCz6QD93QGI300) We could get a good bang for the buck by _aggresively_ going after them too. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/466 "2008-10-15T04:43:49Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > My oldest son worked for the elections office in King County (Washington) for three years. I asked him what they do in King County to weed out duplicate or fraudulent registrations. > > Here’s what he said: > > I asked if he’d had any experience with ACORN. > > Bolding mine. Acorn does not pay by the number. They pay hourly as this article says. > **[So Where’s the ACORN ‘Voter Fraud’? – The BRAD BLOG](https://bradblog.com/?p=6512)** ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/467 "2008-10-15T14:15:15Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > It was not a false dilemma. I specifically noted that the decision was based on where to spend funds. Given the current economic situation, it seems to me that we would get much better bang for the buck going after state officers who have demonstrably skewed elections than hypothetical mobs of multiple-vote poor folks. Is there some evidence that any office is in the position of making such a choice (i.e., “We have $X and have to allocate it. How much should go to the voter fraud of registrations and how much to the state officers’ investigations?”) No? Then it’s a false dilemma. We can (and should) do both. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/468 "2008-10-15T14:19:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Is there some evidence that any office is in the position of making such a choice Is there some evidence the office has an unlimited budget and doesn’t need to prioritize its expenditures? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/469 "2008-10-15T14:20:57Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > While I’m hesitant to return to this stupid thread (only saved by the fact that **magellan01** started an even more insipid OP in this forum), this is completely idiotic. I, a registration agent, hand the form to someone, who fills it out out of my frame of vision, seals it (they do seal, at least where I live), and hands it back. I’m now supposed to initial it, and get punished if they put bogus shit in it? I’d love to see the prosecutor handle that one. Hell, I’d kick his ass in court and I’m not even a lawyer. Why would you get punished in that circumstance? The issue is YOU, the canvasser, making shit up. There’s no suggestion that per se liability attaches to a bad form. > [@](#): > > As for this someone having anything to do with your hard-on for a Voter ID, I’ll repeat again, how’s that work with absentee ballots? If you want to eliminate absentee voting for everyone, including members of the military, I’ll certainly entertain that prospect. Let me know how your fellow conservatives feel about that one. The purpose of voter ID is to ensure that the person casting the vote is the registered voter. I assume the way absentee ballots work is they’re sent out, address to the voter, and serialized in some double-blind way. If we truly did absentee ballots the way we do live voting, then you’d be agitating for us to count a plain white paper written in crayon saying, “I VOAT FOR OBAMA, SIGNED GEORGE W. BUSH.” So the answer to your question is: for absentee ballots, we employ a method that gives us reasonable assurance that the ballot was sent to the actual voter and that the ballot returned is the one sent out. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/470 "2008-10-15T14:22:56Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Is there some evidence the office has an unlimited budget and doesn’t need to prioritize its expenditures? _sigh_ The point is we’re talking about two different offices with two different budgets. Elections officials handle implementing voter ID; prosecutors handle large-scale illegal disenfranchisement. They don’t share a budget. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/471 "2008-10-15T14:25:51Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I’ve come up with a great solution for this issue: > > Instead of relying on an organization like ACORN to register voters, howabout we make it into a governmental responsibility to get 95+ of eligible voters registered, to maintain the database, and to weed out fraud? > > Because the system we have now is stupid and piecemeal. I am opposed to solutions that start out with, “The government should…” Usually. But I must admit that this idea sounds appealing. It IS a civic responsibility. Why not register rising seniors out of high school, for example? Not a volunteer organization coming to the school – why isn’t it a school function? I’d love to see that. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/472 "2008-10-15T14:30:45Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > For murder or rape, yes. For unpaid speeding tickets or failure to pay child support, no. > > This may not be backed by any Supreme Court decision, but my view is that the use of the polls by the state as an opportunity to snag persons who’ve committed petty crimes and infractions, but whose continued freedom doesn’t constitute a menace to society, has a chilling effect on democracy. The right to vote should be pretty near absolute, and only the strongest justifications suffice for preventing, discouraging, or throwing up roadblocks in the way of the exercise of one’s franchise. Yes, and no. I absolutely resist the idea that polling places should somehow be cop-free zones. Equally, though, I agree that it’s improper to have members of the warrant squad listening to names as they’re called out, ready to leap into action to arrest someone. So that would be the line I’d draw. If someone merely has an inchoate fear, simply based on police presence – too damn bad. Mere police presence is acceptable, but with the mission of keeping order and ensuring safety – not to serve old warrants. Of course, if an Obama supporter is arrested for punching a McCain supporter, and THEN it develops that there’s also an outstanding arrest warrant for the puncher, then it should be served. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/473 "2008-10-15T14:31:49Z")
It seems flailing is all the rage these days. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/474 "2008-10-15T14:51:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The point is we’re talking about two different offices with two different budgets. Elections officials handle implementing voter ID; prosecutors handle large-scale illegal disenfranchisement. They don’t share a budget. Which of them receives its funds from a source other than the state? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/475 "2008-10-15T14:54:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by jsgoddess > I’ve come up with a great solution for this issue: > > Instead of relying on an organization like ACORN to register voters, howabout we make it into a governmental responsibility to get 95+ of eligible voters registered, to maintain the database, and to weed out fraud? > > Because the system we have now is stupid and piecemeal. > [@](#): > > I am opposed to solutions that start out with, “The government should…” > > Usually. > > But I must admit that this idea sounds appealing. It IS a civic responsibility. Why not register rising seniors out of high school, for example? Not a volunteer organization coming to the school – why isn’t it a school function? I’d love to see that. Indeed. As I pointed out upthread, in other countries it _is_ a government function. And they’re amazed that it isn’t in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/476 "2008-10-15T15:13:45Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Is there some evidence the office has an unlimited budget and doesn’t need to prioritize its expenditures? Of course there is an unlimited budget for the voting process. It’s not like there are ever any lines to vote in certain districts, and our money would be better spent ensuring that everyone who wishes to vote in their district is able to before the polls close. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/477 "2008-10-15T15:21:37Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Which of them receives its funds from a source other than the state? The prosecutors, inasmuch as voter disenfranchisement is a federal offense. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/478 "2008-10-15T15:48:46Z")
I guess no one on this board knows the problems of poor people. A simple traffic violation can become traumatic for a poor person. If they can not pay a speeding ticket .a warrant is put out for them. If they get picked up for anything ,the warrant will be found and he will be immediately inside the system. He will get arrested,have to either go to jail or come up with a bond. He will get new charges and likely have to pay for court costs and then probation. Probation is charged and he will have to pay for that . He will still not have the money. He may blow off probation. What is a simple problem for us can result in a life changing experience for the poor. Of course their insurance will get too expensive and the hits just keep on coming. But this new semi fugitive state keeps him from voting. The rumors every election are that police will be checking voters at the polls. Voter suppression has many heads. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/479 "2008-10-15T15:56:27Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I guess no one on this board knows the problems of poor people. A simple traffic violation can become traumatic for a poor person. If they can not pay a speeding ticket .a warrant is put out for them. If they get picked up for anything ,the warrant will be found and he will be immediately inside the system. He will get arrested,have to either go to jail or come up with a bond. He will get new charges and likely have to pay for court costs and then probation. Probation is charged and he will have to pay for that . He will still not have the money. He may blow off probation. What is a simple problem for us can result in a life changing experience for the poor. > Of course their insurance will get too expensive and the hits just keep on coming. But this new semi fugitive state keeps him from voting. The rumors every election are that police will be checking voters at the polls. Voter suppression has many heads. Of course, if the poor person simply came to court and explained he didn’t have the money, it’s unlikely that he’d be jailed for failing to pay it. The court would work out a payment plan. I was very poor growing up. Somehow, though, I never had an arrest warrant issued. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/480 "2008-10-15T16:09:33Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Indeed. As I pointed out upthread, in other countries it _is_ a government function. And **they’re amazed** \* that it isn’t in the US. I, for one am. In this country the vast majority of people of voting age are registered. When you acquire your national ID you are automatically registered to vote. ID is required to vote. IDs are free, and mandatory. No ID means that you don’t exist as an adult, for all practical purposes. You cannot even cash a cheque. I can see how the mandatory ID idea might not be appealing to US voters. But it can be worked around that (mandatory registration sans ID, perhaps?). \*Bolding mine [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984.md?page=25)