# ACORN submits fraudulent voter registrations en masse **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 8, 2008, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984 "2008-10-08T13:55:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/501 "2008-10-16T18:32:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Meanwhile, [McCain’s “Clean Election and Voter Fraud Committee” is packed with Pub operatives with a history of voter suppression.](http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/752) Already debunked in another thread. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/502 "2008-10-16T18:47:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Already debunked in another thread. Link? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/503 "2008-10-16T19:03:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Link? A hand wave is hardly a debunking… ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/504 "2008-10-16T20:26:18Z")
In that Guardian article linked to by **jsgoddess** in [post 458](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10315423&postcount=458), Brad Friedman says: > [@](#): > > What you won’t hear is that federal law requires anybody who does not register to vote in person at the county office to show an ID when they go to vote the first time. So, unless Donald Duck shows up with his ID, he won’t be voting this November. Is this true? If so, it sounds like the voter ID requirements that **Bricker** is talking about already exist, at least for cases like these, where fake registrations are turned in. But I have no idea if his assertion is at all accurate. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/505 "2008-10-16T20:46:45Z")
I don’t know if it’s part of the federal rules, but in Iowa, if you want to register and vote on election day, you’re required to show photo ID **and** proof of residence. ---
**Author:** ![Kyrie\_Eleison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kyrie_eleison/32/7682_2.png) [@Kyrie\_Eleison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyrie_Eleison)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/506 "2008-10-16T21:29:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Heaven forfend we deny the right to vote to Mickey Mouse, and disrespect the generations of mice that died to give us that right, eh? [Indeed.](http://www.whitepages.com/5116/search/FindPerson?firstname=Mickey&firstname_begins_with=1&name=Mouse&city_zip=+&state_id=&x=47&y=25) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/507 "2008-10-16T21:35:11Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > Is this true? If so, it sounds like the voter ID requirements that **Bricker** is talking about already exist, at least for cases like these, where fake registrations are turned in. But I have no idea if his assertion is at all accurate. IIRC, when I voted in Virginia in 2006, I had to show my driver’s license, because I had registered by mail. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/508 "2008-10-16T21:46:37Z")
From the Ohio [registration form](http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/upload/publications/election/VRform.pdf) (pdf): > [@](#): > > **Registering by Mail** > If you register by mail and do **not** provide either a current Ohio driver’s license number or the last four digits of your Social Security number, please enclose with your application **a copy** of one of the following forms that shows your name and current address: > > current valid photo identification card > military identification > current (within one year) utility bill, bank statement, paycheck, government check or government document (except board of elections notifications) showing your name and current address So, in order to register by mail, you need to provide ID. The only options are “register by mail” or “register in person” so I guess the ACORN forms would be “registering by mail”? If the ACORN people are traipsing around, they obviously wouldn’t have photocopiers on their backs, so… no idea how that works. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/509 "2008-10-16T21:47:15Z")
> [@Kyrie\_Eleison](#): > > [Indeed.](http://www.whitepages.com/5116/search/FindPerson?firstname=Mickey&firstname_begins_with=1&name=Mouse&city_zip=+&state_id=&x=47&y=25) That is why ACORN or any other person can only flag them as likely fake and the decision is on the election commissioner. You just can not know . ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/510 "2008-10-16T21:49:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Except that in this very thread I expressed approval for the idea. [mandatory registration by the government] > > Didn’t I? Then we’re agreed that voter ID laws are not a necessary solution to alleged registration abuses. Government-run universal voter registration ==\> no need for registration drives by NGOs such as ACORN ==\> no need for voter ID laws to guard against registration abuses by NGOs. Excellent. Kudos to you, **Bricker**. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/511 "2008-10-17T03:05:51Z")
[http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/729391.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/729391.html) **FBI investigates ACORN over voter registrations** > [@](#): > > A day after John McCain charged that the liberal-leaning voter registration group ACORN “may be perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history,” it was disclosed Thursday that the FBI is investigating whether the group coordinated the filing of phony applications… Let me offer you a stone gaurantee: this will be used. Republicans will move heaven and earth to get some entry into the polling places, draped in the legal legitimacy offered by friend **Bricker** and other unindictable co-conspirators (hereinafter referred to as the “Forces of Darkness”). They are going to leverage this puny matter to try at insert themselves into a position where they may challenge voters at polling places. And the purpose is insidious: they will do their level best to see to it that the process is slowed and made cumbersome. By such means they hope to discourage disadvantaged and minority voters. And it works. This is voter suppression draped in the legitimacy of law, it perverts law for unjust purposes. No self-respecting servant of the law can condone this. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/512 "2008-10-17T03:14:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > This is voter suppression draped in the legitimacy of law, it perverts law for unjust purposes. Wasn’t that much of the purpose of the US Attorney purge, getting rid of those who wouldn’t play along? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/513 "2008-10-17T03:26:06Z")
Even Carol Stream acknowledges that ACORN and Democrats don’t benefit by registering fake voters, so I have a very tough time believing that anyone believes this is an attempt at fraud. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/514 "2008-10-17T16:04:29Z")
John Conyers says Bricker is …[checks forum] incorrect… > [@](#): > > Dear Mr. Attorney General and Director Mueller: > > It is with shock and disappointment that I read today’s Associated Press report that the Federal Bureau of Investigation has opened and leaked an investigation into whether ACORN, a longstanding and well regarded organization that fights for the poor and working class, is involved in nationwide voter fraud. > > As an initial matter, it is simply unacceptable that such information would be leaked during the very peak of the election season. Such leaks of information about ongoing criminal investigation matters are always inappropriate, and likely violate the provisions of the U.S. Attorney manual governing release of information about ongoing investigations (and which, in any event, would require approval from the responsible U.S. Attorney or Department division before release1). More significant in this case, however, they also run afoul of valuable Department traditions regarding the need for cautious and sensitive handling of election-related matters during the run up to voting (or, as here, while early voting is underway). Indeed, I note with dismay that this sort of release likely would have violated the traditional principles stated in the Department’s Election Crimes Manual, such as the requirement that prosecutors “must refrain from any conduct which has the possibility of affecting the election itself,” and that “most, if not all, investigation of an alleged election crime must await the end of the election to which the allegation relates,” but those provisions were removed by the Department in May 2007 as the U.S. Attorney controversy was unfolding and it was learned that former U.S. Attorney Brad Schlozman had apparently improperly brought enforcement action against ACORN volunteers during the run up to the 2006 national elections. > Moreover, this news is all the more troubling in light of the proven wrongdoing at the Justice Department in the United States Attorneys scandal. As you are aware, there is extensive evidence that political operatives improperly pressured United States Attorneys to investigate and prosecute spurious claims of vote fraud in close proximity to an election. When some did not, they were terminated. Thus, one must view the timing of this extraordinary leak with added suspicion, given that it comes less than 24 hours after the Republican Presidential candidate raised these allegations in a nationally televised debate. > I know that it has become a right-wing cottage industry to cry wolf over alleged “voter fraud” during an election season (only to have such claims evaporate after the election has concluded). Indeed, using superlatives that would make P.T. Barnum blush, Senator John McCain, the Republican Presidential candidate, said in the debate last night, that ACORN “is now on the verge of maybe perpetuating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy.” One would hope the Justice Department and FBI would more skeptically examine such sensational accusations than some cable news outlets. And this is particularly true where the allegations, even given their fullest reading, simply do not support such alarmist and unreasonable claims. > The facts as I understand them are these. A longstanding and well regarded organization that fights for the poor and working class has come under partisan fire for its voter registration acitvities. This organization has registered more than one million voters. There are allegations that some paid workers essentially cheated ACORN by filling out registration forms with bogus names and incorrect information. This of course would have harmed ACORN since ACORN pays to register potential voters, not phantoms, but - critically - does not deprive any person of their own right to vote or result in any unauthorized or fraudulent votes being cast. As one expert in this field has explained, “Mickey Mouse may show up on a registration list, but he’s not likely to vote.” > Furthermore, despite a long partisan campaign to stir up fears regarding so-called “voter fraud,” they have been unable to produce any credible examples of meaningful fraudulent voting that could have a tangible impact on any election. Just this week, in fact, the Republican Governor of Florida, Charlie Crist, said - with respect to his state - that such allegations are “less than is being discussed” and ascribed these types of allegations to “some who enjoy chaos.” Similarly, the Republican Secretary of State has indicated that he does not believe that ACORN is engaged in systematic voting fraud. Indeed, such allegations repeatedly dissolve under fair scrutiny.2 > At the same time, numerous allegations have emerged that political operatives are engaged in supression of eligible voters and this activity has apparently failed to receive the intense attention that the federal government is now reportedly devoting to ACORN. For example, there are reports that the chairman of the Republican Party in Macomb County, Michigan, a key swing county in a key swing state, has planned to use a list of foreclosed homes to block people from voting in the upcoming election as part of the state GOP’s effort to challenge some voters on Election Day. Additionally, the Columbus Dispatch reports that the Ohio GOP in Franklin County, "has not ruled out challenging voters before the election due to foreclosure-related address issues."3 > Accordingly, I condemn the leak of this sensitive information and remind you both of your and your agencies’ obligations to handle election-related matters in an appropriate and non-political matter as the election season proceeds. In addition, please let me know no later than Thursday, October 23, 2008, if the release of information and all other actions taken regarding this investigation are consistent with the US Attorneys Manual and the Election Crimes Manual and, if not, what action has been taken in response. Please direct your response to the Judiciary Committee Office at XXXXXXXX (tel: XXXXXXXXXX, fax: XXXXXXXXXX). > Sincerely, > > John Conyers, Jr. > > Chairman ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/515 "2008-10-17T19:21:59Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > John Conyers says Bricker is …[checks forum] incorrect… I do not regard John Conyers as a neutral, disinterested observer. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/516 "2008-10-17T19:26:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I do not regard John Conyers as a neutral, disinterested observer. Are you suggesting that you are a neutral and disinterested observer? By all means handwaive the Chairman of the Judiciary Commitee, it bolsters your credibility… ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/517 "2008-10-17T20:10:06Z")
[Death threat, vandalism hit ACORN after McCain comments](http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/54360.html) > [@](#): > > An ACORN community organizer received a death threat and the liberal activist group’s Boston and Seattle offices were vandalized Thursday, reflecting mounting tensions over its role in registering 1.3 million mostly poor and minority Americans to vote next month. > > Attorneys for the Association of Community Organizers for Reform Now were notifying the FBI and the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division of the incidents, said Brian Kettenring, a Florida-based spokesman for the group. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/518 "2008-10-17T20:14:50Z")
**In Utterly and in No Way, Shape or Form Related News:** [Supreme Court throws out Ohio Republicans’ election lawsuit](http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-scotus18-2008oct18,0,3579254.story) > [@](#): > > he Supreme Court today threw out a lawsuit brought by the Ohio Republican Party that could have made it easier to challenge tens of thousands of newly registered voters. > > The high court, in a brief opinion, said the federal law that called for computer checks of new voters did not authorize private lawsuits to enforce it. > > The ruling is a victory for Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner, a Democrat. She said she feared “chaos” on election day if the GOP were permitted last-minute challenges to new voters based on data on file with the state Department of Motor Vehicles. > > Ohio, always a closely contested state, has seen more than 600,000 new registered voters this year. Brunner said she feared that as many as 200,000 of them could be challenged and forced to file provisional ballots if there were a mismatch between the information on their voter registration cards and the data on file with the DMV. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/519 "2008-10-17T20:59:50Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > **In Utterly and in No Way, Shape or Form Related News:** > > [Supreme Court throws out Ohio Republicans’ election lawsuit](http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-scotus18-2008oct18,0,3579254.story) Which is an excellent result given the goofiness of the DMV records. I’ve had a misspelled name twice on my car registration and the wrong city on my driver’s license once. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/520 "2008-10-18T16:52:27Z")
Does anyone believe that the false registrations are going to be used systematically to allow people to vote where they are not eligible to, or to vote more than once? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984.md?page=27)