# ACORN submits fraudulent voter registrations en masse **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 8, 2008, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984 "2008-10-08T13:55:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/521 "2008-10-18T17:36:51Z")
> **[McCain Acorn Fears Overblown](https://abcnews.com/Blotter/story?id=6049529&page=1)** > > In Wednesday's final presidential debate before the election, Sen. John McCain said Sen. Barack Obama is tied to Acorn, a nonprofit group that McCain said "is now on the verge of maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this... \*\*McCain Acorn Fears Overblown \*\* > [@](#): > > …But McCain’s voter fraud worries – about Acorn or anyone else – are unsupported by the facts, said experts on election fraud, who recall similar concerns being raised in several previous elections, despite a near-total absence of cases. > > “There’s no evidence that any of these invalid registrations lead to any invalid votes,” said David Becker, project director of the “Make Voting Work” initiative for the Pew Charitable Trusts. > > Becker should know: he was a lawyer for the Bush administration until 2005, in the Justice Department’s voting rights section, which was part of the administration’s aggressive anti-vote-fraud effort. > > “The Justice Department really made prosecution of voter fraud of this sort a big priority in the first half of this decade, and they really didn’t come up with anything,” he said… And > [@](#): > > …“We’re chasing these ghosts of voter fraud, like chickens without a head,” said Lorraine Minnite, a political science professor at Barnard College in New York who has researched voter fraud and fraud claims for most of the past decade. “I think it’s completely overblown, I think it’s meant to be a distraction.” > > “This stuff does not threaten the outcome of the election,” said Minnite. “How many illegal ballots have been cast by people who are fraudulently registered to vote? By my count, it’s zero. I just don’t know of any, I’ve been looking for years for this stuff.” … ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/522 "2008-10-18T18:38:13Z")
I remember how Rush Limbaugh went on about America held hostage by the Clintons, as if he had not become the president legitimately, and there were not the election irregularities that there were in 2000 and even 2004 Ohio. I wonder if the main thrust of the stories about ACORN is to make Obama’s victory appear illegitimate, but what bigger purposethat serves, I don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/523 "2008-10-18T18:52:07Z")
> [@lee](#): > > I remember how Rush Limbaugh went on about America held hostage by the Clintons, as if he had not become the president legitimately, and there were not the election irregularities that there were in 2000 and even 2004 Ohio. I wonder if the main thrust of the stories about ACORN is to make Obama’s victory appear illegitimate, but what bigger purposethat serves, I don’t understand. To justify cutting legitimate potential democratic voters from the rolls. They will claim they want to purify the vote like they did in Florida in 2004. They actually use the false threat to justify cutting the poor and likely democratic vote. It was a scheme. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/524 "2008-10-18T20:26:20Z")
> [@](#): > > “There’s no evidence that any of these invalid registrations lead to any invalid votes,” said David Becker, project director of the “Make Voting Work” initiative for the Pew Charitable Trusts. > > Becker should know: he was a lawyer for the Bush administration until 2005, in the Justice Department’s voting rights section, which was part of the administration’s aggressive anti-vote-fraud effort. David Becker – elections expert, or _ **DIRTY FUCKING TRAITOR TO THE CAUSE** _? You decide. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/525 "2008-10-18T20:36:52Z")
OVer five hundred pages in, it’s been exhaustively proven this nonsense can’t result in phony votes and that ACORN is the party that got screwed in all this, and it’s still going? ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/526 "2008-10-18T20:50:02Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > David Becker – elections expert, or _ **DIRTY FUCKING TRAITOR TO THE CAUSE** _? You decide. He’s certainly not the David Becker I knew. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/527 "2008-10-18T20:51:39Z")
> [@5-4-Fighting](#): > > He’s certainly not the David Becker I knew. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/528 "2008-10-18T23:17:50Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > OVer five hundred pages in, it’s been exhaustively proven this nonsense can’t result in phony votes and that ACORN is the party that got screwed in all this, and it’s still going? So long as the Republicans are making it an issue, I think this thread is as good as any for putting up the truth. [=2653&tx\_ttnews[backPid]=263&cHash=68cc2bc35c"]Here’s]([Home - Project Vote](http://projectvote.org/index.php?id=265&tx_ttnews)[tt\_news) an interesting column showing how the affadavit that was used to get a search warrant shows how many of the list that Bricker requires are already being met. For example: > [@](#): > > The internal process followed by ACORN required that they document the serial numbers of all forms provided to each canvasser when the canvasser booked forms out each day and when they returned the forms at the end of each day. By this method the management at ACORN was able to identify which forms were submitted by which canvasser. Page 14, Lines 16-20 ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/529 "2008-10-18T23:57:55Z")
> [@lee](#): > > Does anyone believe that the false registrations are going to be used systematically to allow people to vote where they are not eligible to, or to vote more than once? Bricker does. ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/530 "2008-10-19T02:16:31Z")
I quit reading this thread after about 200 posts, so sorry if this was posted already. I’m researching for an article about Voter ID laws, and I came across an old [WSJ opinion piece](http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110008630) from July 2006. It’s got an obvious political slant, but I think the event it describes is kinda prescient, and certainly apropos of this thread: > [@](#): > > The floor debate over the McConnell proposal [voter ID law] was revealing. Democratic Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois inexplicably claimed the proposal was a solution without a problem because there was no voter fraud in the country. Coming from a man who represents Chicago, his statement left some colleagues in slack-jawed amazement. Almost as unbelievable were claims by Sen. Ted Kennedy that a photo ID requirement would bring back the equivalent of a poll tax on voters. “How can it be a poll tax, if anyone can get the ID for free?” shot back Mr. McConnell. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/531 "2008-10-20T06:01:19Z")
Well, well, well well, well: > [@](#): > > State and local investigators allege that Mark Jacoby fraudulently registered himself to vote at a childhood California address where he no longer lives so he would appear to meet the legal requirement that all signature gatherers be eligible to vote in California. His firm, Young Political Majors, or YPM, collects petition signatures and registers voters in California and other states. Those damn liberals…oh wait: > [@](#): > > The owner of a firm that the California Republican Party hired to register tens of thousands of voters this year was arrested in Ontario over the weekend on suspicion of voter registration fraud. It gets better: > [@](#): > > Jacoby’s arrest by state investigators and the Ontario Police Department late Saturday came after dozens of voters said they were duped into registering as Republicans by people employed by YPM. The voters said YPM workers tricked them by saying they were signing a petition to toughen penalties against child molesters. > [@](#): > > YPM has been accused of using bait-and-switch tactics across the country. Election officials and lawmakers have launched investigations into the activities of YPM workers in Florida and Massachusetts. In Arizona, the firm was recently a defendant in a civil rights lawsuit. from here: [Man arrested in voter fraud](http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fraud20-2008oct20,0,3842357.story) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/532 "2008-10-20T07:44:25Z")
Clearly, this is a threat to the very fabric of democracy. I renounce, denounce, and repudiate, and I trust such villainy will be severely prosecuted, ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/533 "2008-10-20T12:38:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Clearly, this is a threat to the very fabric of democracy. I renounce, denounce, and repudiate, and I trust such villainy will be severely prosecuted, The fabric of democracy needs the dry cleaners of truth to put it in the thin plastic bags of justice! ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/534 "2008-10-20T13:19:13Z")
These are fine, upstanding, responsible, fake republicans. They will not start trouble like those ACORN fake voters. Tony Romo? That guy can’t just stick with anonymous hot babes, he has to tie himself up in this Jessica Simpson circus. I don’t trust fake Tony Romo not to vote and screw everything all up. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/535 "2008-10-20T13:36:09Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Well, well, well well, well: > > Those damn liberals…oh wait: > It gets better: > > from here: [Man arrested in voter fraud](http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fraud20-2008oct20,0,3842357.story) [Meanwhile, in Montana . . .](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters/372992/gop_busted_for_voter_suppression) ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/536 "2008-10-20T13:46:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Meanwhile, in Montana . . .](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters/372992/gop_busted_for_voter_suppression) I wonder if Bricker will be outraged… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/537 "2008-10-20T14:03:09Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > I wonder if Bricker will be outraged… Not yet. As I read the story: > [@](#): > > Republicans raised concerns with registered voters who live at addresses that differed from the addresses listed on their voter registration information. The party asked that county election officials ask voters to prove their current addresses. I can’t figure out why that’s the least bit outrageous. Please explain it to me. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/538 "2008-10-20T14:05:54Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Well, well, well well, well: > > Those damn liberals…oh wait: > It gets better: > > from here: [Man arrested in voter fraud](http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fraud20-2008oct20,0,3842357.story) Now, HERE, in contrast, I have no trouble being outraged. It’s outrageous to trick people into signing anything by misrepresenting it; it’s outrageous to fake a residence for voting-related purposes of any kind. Throw the book at this yahoo. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/539 "2008-10-20T14:46:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not yet. > > As I read the story: > > I can’t figure out why that’s the least bit outrageous. > > Please explain it to me. From the same story: > [@](#): > > U.S. District Judge Donald Molloy of Missoula didn’t rule in the case, but issued a strongly worded order blasting the Republicans. > > “The timing of these challenges is so transparent that it defies common sense to believe the purpose is anything but political chicanery,” Molloy wrote. And the Montana Republican Party itself found the matter serious enough to fire Jake Eaton. (Well, he resigned, but, you know.) Furthermore: > [@](#): > > Adds Montana blogger Jay Stevens of the great blog Left in the West: > > > [@](#): > > > > There’s no way Eaton, a recent college grad, challenges the voting eligibility of 6,000 Montanans on his own. The methods too closely resemble voter suppression efforts elsewhere to be coincidence. Take, for example, the voter suppression effort in Michigan, which was smaller in scale (“only” 1,500 voters), but had a similar outcome. There, the federal judge ruled that the Michigan Secretary of State’s office–run by a Republican–violated federal law in its efforts to purge the rolls of voters because voter cards were returned as “undeliverable” or because voters applied for a driver’s license in another state. And, as if on cue, John McCain, using ACORN as a causus belli, is calling for an “immediate investigation” of “voter fraud” in battleground states. > > In case you were wondering, the latest poll in Montana has McCain leading Obama by five points, 50-45. In a state with 660,000 registered voters, 6,000 votes can make a whole lotta difference. Democrat Jon Tester won an upset bid for the Senate in 2006 by less than 3,000 votes. Clear now? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/540 "2008-10-20T15:29:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > From the same story: > > And the Montana Republican Party itself found the matter serious enough to fire Jake Eaton. (Well, he resigned, but, you know.) Furthermore: > > Clear now? No. The judge “blasted” the timing but doesn’t seem to have anything to say on the merits of the claim. And again, reading only what you’ve offered, the question remains in my mind… what’s the problem. If there’s a voter with an address different than the one he registered with, it seems to me something that needs to be clarified. I honestly don’t see the problem here. Are you saying we should just let that slide, not worry about it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984.md?page=28)