# ACORN submits fraudulent voter registrations en masse **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 8, 2008, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984 "2008-10-08T13:55:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/41 "2008-10-08T15:40:26Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > That’s really the best option. This is a non-story used only to cast aspersions on some members. We should be afforded the opportunity to give it the response it deserves and not be limited by the constraints imposed by GD rules. It is clearly not intended to be a Great Debate but rather a not so thinly veiled Pit like attack, lame uninformed hyper partisan unfounded not grounded in reality attack but attack never the less. Bricker has repeatedly demonstrated that when it comes to politics he absolutely does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. That is absolutely untrue, although of course the Pit remains available to you to express your opinions. But I didn’t link to a right-wing blog, or even Fox News. The story was from the Washington Post. The raid is real; the allegations are real. You cannot hand-wave it away. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/42 "2008-10-08T15:41:54Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Any signs of voter fraud, yet? Registration fraud is not the same thing as voter fraud. Someone needs to actually attempt to vote (or be denied the right to vote) for it to be voter fraud. That’s a rather… nice distinction, in the Shakespearean use of the word ‘nice’. Fraud in voter registration is fairly discussed, I believe, under the general rubric of “voter fraud.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/43 "2008-10-08T15:45:25Z")
> [@A\_shameful\_cracka](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the more blatant falsifications (i.e. Dallas Cowboy names) were done by people trying to hurt ACORN. As pointed out, they’d hire anyone. I’m sure there’s plenty of McCain supporters who would go to work for ACORN and submit false voter registrations to hurt the reputation of their opposition and get paid to do so. I wouldn’t be surprised if these registrations were the first part of a massive conspiracy to bus people from precinct to precinct on voting day, armed with their fake information, ready to vote and cry foul if they’re prevented because they don’t have ID. Of course, I’d never offer that observation in GD, because here in GD, “I wouldn’t be surprised..” is not a substitute for an argument. It suffers from the _argumentum ad ignoratium_ fallacy – “We don’t know it, so it might be true.” A person here in GD argues a proposition by submitting positive evidence for it; the burden of proof lies always with the claimant. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/44 "2008-10-08T15:47:35Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > I, **Pashnish Ewing** , do hereby reject, denounce, and rebuke the actions of the Nevada Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. I,. **Pash… I mean Hamlet** , do hereby reject, denounce, and rebuke the actions of Nevada Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/45 "2008-10-08T15:48:29Z")
Wouldn’t a national voter ID card with a sliding scale fee make it incredibly easy to disenfranchise poor voters at a national level? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/46 "2008-10-08T15:50:22Z")
ACORN Statement: Nevada Secretary of State “Stunt” Serves No Useful Purpose [http://www.acorn.org/index.php?id=12439&tx\_ttnews[tt\_news]=22367&tx\_ttnews[backPid]=12346&cHash=bfe5d5d350](http://www.acorn.org/index.php?id=12439&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=22367&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=12346&cHash=bfe5d5d350) > [@](#): > > On Oct. 7, ACORN interim Chief Organizer Bertha Lewis issued the following statement regarding ACORN’s Las Vegas office: > > "Over the past year, ACORN has worked hard to help over 80,000 people in Clark County register to vote. As part of our nonpartisan voter registration program, we have reviewed all the applications submitted by our canvassers. When we have identified suspicious applications, we have separated them out and flagged them for election officials. We have zero tolerance for fraudulent registrations. We immediately dismiss employees we suspect of submitting fraudulent registrations. > > "For the past 10 months, any time ACORN has identified a potentially fraudulent application, we turn that application in to election officials separately and offer to provide election officials with the information they would need to pursue an investigation or prosecution of the individual. > > "Election officials routinely ignored this information and failed to act. In early July, ACORN asked to meet with election officials to express our concerns that they were not acting on information ACORN had presented to them. ACORN met with Clark County elections officials and a representative of the Secretary of State on July 17th. ACORN pleaded with them to take our concerns about fraudulent applications seriously. … -copy and paste to see link ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/47 "2008-10-08T15:51:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You cannot hand-wave it away. Watch me… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/48 "2008-10-08T15:53:33Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I,. **Pash… I mean Hamlet** , do hereby reject, denounce, and rebuke the actions of Nevada Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. I, Czarcasm, hereby reject, denounce, and rebuke the actions _of those who sought to defraud_ Navada Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/49 "2008-10-08T15:56:50Z")
While I certainly appreciate the Reject And Denounce Club (RADECL, isn’t it called?) it would be ever so heartwarming to see them following their rejecting and denouncing with, “…and I now support the voter ID initiatives, since it’s clear that fraud in registrations exists and this type of fraud can be stopped by requiring voter IDs.” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/50 "2008-10-08T15:57:23Z")
Does this sort of thread have the desired effect on anyone, anywhere? ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/51 "2008-10-08T15:58:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > While I certainly appreciate the Reject And Denounce Club (RADECL, isn’t it called?) it would be ever so heartwarming to see them following their rejecting and denouncing with, “…and I now support the voter ID initiatives, since it’s clear that fraud in registrations exists and this type of fraud can be stopped by requiring voter IDs.” Does this mean you are still conflicted on who to vote for? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/52 "2008-10-08T15:59:12Z")
> [@Phlosphr](#): > > Does this mean you are still conflicted on who to vote for? If I told you the honest answer to that, you wouldn’t believe me, and I’d be further vilified. So I am going to pass. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/53 "2008-10-08T16:00:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If I told you the honest answer to that, you wouldn’t believe me, and I’d be further vilified. So I am going to pass. Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/54 "2008-10-08T16:09:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > While I certainly appreciate the Reject And Denounce Club (RADECL, isn’t it called?) it would be ever so heartwarming to see them following their rejecting and denouncing with, “…and I now support the voter ID initiatives, since it’s clear that fraud in registrations exists and this type of fraud can be stopped by requiring voter IDs.” No, because the vastly greater is still eligable voters being turned away from polls–and in large enough numbers to sway elections. That’s a far greater miscarraige of justice than a few fraudulent votes slipping through. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/55 "2008-10-08T16:10:37Z")
Would this be a good time to remind everybody that voter registration shenanigans are not new to Nevada? [http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/14/nevada.registration/](http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/14/nevada.registration/) ---
**Author:** ![A\_shameful\_cracka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@A\_shameful\_cracka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_shameful_cracka)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/56 "2008-10-08T16:10:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised if these registrations were the first part of a massive conspiracy to bus people from precinct to precinct on voting day, armed with their fake information, ready to vote and cry foul if they’re prevented because they don’t have ID. > > Of course, I’d never offer that observation in GD, because here in GD, “I wouldn’t be surprised..” is not a substitute for an argument. It suffers from the _argumentum ad ignoratium_ fallacy – “We don’t know it, so it might be true.” A person here in GD argues a proposition by submitting positive evidence for it; the burden of proof lies always with the claimant. Your scenario is possible, but it seems less likely than mine. I think if ACORN was intending voter fraud of that sort, they would have made sure the names and addresses were legit. It seems a lot more likely that lazy people working on commission or that anti-Obama people acting on their own made up names than the idea that ACORN intended to have Ocho Cinco vote for Obama in the wrong state. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/57 "2008-10-08T16:14:19Z")
> [@A\_shameful\_cracka](#): > > Your scenario is possible, but it seems less likely than mine. I think if ACORN was intending voter fraud of that sort, they would have made sure the names and addresses were legit. It seems a lot more likely that lazy people working on commission or that anti-Obama people acting on their own made up names than the idea that ACORN intended to have Ocho Cinco vote for Obama in the wrong state. 😕 “Ocho Cinco”? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/58 "2008-10-08T16:18:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If I told you the honest answer to that, you wouldn’t believe me, and I’d be further vilified. So I am going to pass. If it makes any difference, Bricker, I couldn’t possibly lose more respect for you than I already have. So you might as well go ahead and tell us. So anyway, back to what you said about the one making the claim being responsible for providing evidence, you are making the claim that voter ID laws are necessary. Perhaps you have some evidence of that, maybe some examples of people who have gone to the polls and voted under someone else’s name? Please share with the rest of the class. Incidentally, before Indiana passed the notorious, discriminatory, reprehensible voter ID act, it had a way of verifying voters. I worked the polls many times, and we had a book of every voter’s signature, scanned from their voter registration form. When anyone came in to vote, they had to sign a form. The poll worker would then compare the signature to the one on file. If they matched, all was cool. If they did not match, further investigation was required, such as the showing of ID. Of course, I never saw signatures not match, because what in the hell is the incentive to go vote under a different name? If you go say you’re somebody else, and sign the form, you’ve just committed a Class C Felony, punishable by up to 8 years in prison. You think people are willing to risk 8 years in prison, for… what, again? One lousy extra vote? It’s not worth it. What do you think of that system? What advantages does showing ID have over it, other than the obvious advantage of disenfranchising a lot of poor people who would likely vote in a way you don’t like? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/59 "2008-10-08T16:22:37Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > ACORN’s spokesperson said that they are paid by the hour, not the name, so that would not seem to be an issue. > . For a moderator who is suppose to read through the threads you can be pretty selective with this task when you want to. The sentence that followed clearly indicates they have a quota to make or risk termination: **ACORN canvassers are paid by the hour. Ex-employees also said they were expected to collect 20 complete forms a shift or risk probation and termination, the investigator said in his affidavit.** This is the tip of the iceberg for ACORN. They are intimately linked to the HUD mortgage problem and the people on this board are turning a blind eye because it makes Democrats look bad. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984/60 "2008-10-08T16:24:20Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > This is the tip of the iceberg for ACORN. They are intimately linked to the HUD mortgage problem … How so? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-submits-fraudulent-voter-registrations-en-masse/466984.md?page=4)