# ACORN -vs- Hannah Giles, undercover hooker **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 25, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474 "2009-09-25T03:25:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474/21 "2009-09-25T16:47:02Z")
You have an expectation of privacy if you’re in your own office. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474/22 "2009-09-25T16:53:56Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You have an expectation of privacy if you’re in your own office. I think the point is if multiple people are there, you are talking loud, other people could walk right in, etc. shows that you did not EXPECT privacy in the communication…not that you cannot expect privacy in your office ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474/23 "2009-09-25T17:01:26Z")
The ACORN workers had a reasonable expectation to privacy in their own offices. Their complaint is going to hold up at least enough to get a trial. I think this is really about discovery anyway. If the unedited tapes show significant deception in how the scammers presented the incidents on Fox, there could be some defamation or libel complaints as well. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474/24 "2009-09-25T17:02:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > So you have no answer to the question. I’m completely serious. What does ACORN have to worry about? Depending on how loose the rules of discovery are, and the fact that many states have wanted a peek into ACORN’s financial books, they may have quite a bit to worry about if any of the allegations of shuffling money between community activities and political arms of the organization can be shown. Of course, I don’t know if discovery rules are THAT loose. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474/25 "2009-09-25T17:04:13Z")
Allegations from who? Right wing talk show hosts? ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474/26 "2009-09-25T17:05:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The ACORN workers had a reasonable expectation to privacy in their own offices. Their complaint is going to hold up at least enough to get a trial. > I think this is really about discovery anyway. If the unedited tapes show significant deception in how the scammers presented the incidents on Fox, there could be some defamation or libel complaints as well. You may very well be right. But, I don’t think ACORN really wants the full, unedited tapes necessarily released. If, as they allege, there is no link between the individuals caught on film and the organization then ACORN has no idea what is really on those tapes. I think ACORN is sending a message to anyone with any similar plans to hurt the organization. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474/27 "2009-09-25T17:09:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Allegations from who? Right wing talk show hosts? Whistleblowers within the organization. Also, I think Louisiana has been wanting to look at their books since the whole embezzlement scandal. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474/28 "2009-09-25T17:09:43Z")
What message is that? Don’t break the law? If the unedited tapes would be damaging to ACORN, then why won’t the “filmmakers” let anybody see them? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474/29 "2009-09-25T17:10:52Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Whistleblowers within the organization. Also, I think Louisiana has been wanting to look at their books since the whole embezzlement scandal. What embezzlement scandal? Oh wait, you mean the embezzlement in which ACORN was the VICTIM? ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474/30 "2009-09-25T17:11:13Z")
ACORN should get their they in court, but my gut tells me they’ll end up regretting it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474/31 "2009-09-25T17:12:03Z")
Why? ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474/32 "2009-09-25T17:15:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What embezzlement scandal? > > Oh wait, you mean the embezzlement in which ACORN was the VICTIM? Yup…that’s the one. I think that Rathke was still a part of ACORN well after news of the embezzlement surfaced. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474/33 "2009-09-25T17:21:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What embezzlement scandal? > > Oh wait, you mean the embezzlement in which ACORN was the VICTIM? Yes, when Dale Rathke embezzled over $1 million, Wade Rathke handled it as “an internal matter.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474/34 "2009-09-25T17:22:08Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Yup…that’s the one. I think that Rathke was still a part of ACORN well after news of the embezzlement surfaced. Not only that, he suppressed news of the embezzlement even from his own board, and ensured that the embezzler (who happened to be his own brother) continued to work for the organization. When this finally came out, the brother was fired outright and Rathke moved over to the international umbrella organization of ACORN. So for **Diogenes** to say that ACORN was the victim here rather covers over a lot of incriminating detail. You could as easily say ACORN is a victim in this mess too…that rather conveniently lets them off the hook for their role in this huge mess. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474/35 "2009-09-25T17:24:53Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > Yes, when Dale Rathke embezzled over $1 million, Wade Rathke handled it as “an internal matter.” Interesting. I didn’t know that if I stole from my company it made my company guilty of embezzlement. That’s quite a facile legal mentality you righties have. If I steal your car, does that make you a car thief? ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474/36 "2009-09-25T17:25:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Why? Working purely on gut, I think that it might expose other slips and mistakes that even if they win the case could open a can of worms for them. Purely gut…and I don’t watch/listen to/read Beck, Limbaugh, Malkin (she’s hot though) or any of those guys. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474/37 "2009-09-25T17:27:59Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Not only that, he suppressed news of the embezzlement even from his own board, and ensured that the embezzler (who happened to be his own brother) continued to work for the organization. When this finally came out, the brother was fired outright and Rathke moved over to the international umbrella organization of ACORN. > > So for **Diogenes** to say that ACORN was the victim here rather covers over a lot of incriminating detail. You could as easily say ACORN is a victim in this mess too…that rather conveniently lets them off the hook for their role in this huge mess. If ACORN wasn’t victim, who was? What was ACORN’s “role” in stealing from itself? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474/38 "2009-09-25T17:36:15Z")
What was Enron’s role in stealing from itself? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474/39 "2009-09-25T17:49:39Z")
Enron didn’t steal from itself. It hid debt to increase its stock prices. How did ACORN benefit from being robbed by Rathke? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474/40 "2009-09-25T17:56:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > So you have no answer to the question. I’m completely serious. What does ACORN have to worry about? For starters, a review of every loan they ever facilitated. All the worthless loans will be exposed. The tree of public discontent over ACORN’s activities will grow tall and branch out into every aspect of the organization. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-vs-hannah-giles-undercover-hooker/511474.md?page=3)