# ACORN workers caught on tape apparently advising on child prostitution **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2009, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681 "2009-09-11T13:19:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/221 "2009-09-12T04:48:02Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > I think he is saying that he will consider talking to CNN when CNN bothers to air the footage and report on the story. > [@](#): > > First CNN \*\*pushed \*\*the false ACORN line that “[t]his film crew tried to pull this sham at other offices and failed.” But once again he is being misleading regarding how the media reports histories. Just because Fox does not do it that way does not means that it is something nefarious. As in other thread I found reports that the filmmaker may also had broken laws against secret recordings, I have to question if all the information and all of the tape was released. BTW I agree with the workers being fired. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/222 "2009-09-12T04:49:26Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Thanks for the name and the links. Mr. O’Keefe himself is not very honest, and is definitely pushing an agenda. This isn’t journalism at all; it’s a hatchet job. > > He claims to have exposed “blatant ACORN CORRUPTION” and “ACORN caught on tape trying to help create a brothel featuring illegal immigrant age range 13-15 from El Salvador”, but the transcript doesn’t back that up. ACORN had nothing to do with this, other than being the employer of the people he taped. > > And, in the end, ACORN did fire the people involved, as any decent employer would. > > I doubt that will stop Mr. O’Keefe from wailing and gnashing his teeth, tho. This is the main argument of this thread. Not whether this one tape implicates ACORN in the wrongdoing of these employees but, taken together with everything else that certain ACORN employees, management and the founder have been involved in, can a reasonable person assume that the group is corrupt and needs to be investigated? This is all the more important since they receive taxpayer dollars in the form of grants. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/223 "2009-09-12T05:04:17Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > This is the main argument of this thread. Not whether this one tape implicates ACORN in the wrongdoing of these employees but, taken together with everything else that certain ACORN employees, management and the founder have been involved in, can a reasonable person assume that the group is corrupt and needs to be investigated? This is all the more important since they receive taxpayer dollars in the form of grants. Not anymore regarding any census work, so IMO that is a moot point. IMHO ACORN was judged guilty already by many here, you may want to think on the fairness of that. And yet I do remember that in the past ACORN was reinstated after courts **did** investigate and the prosecutors just can not manage to demonstrate that finding some unethical workers means that the whole organization is a criminal one. > **[5820\_7\_Notification\_to\_Iglesias.pdf](https://www.judicialwatch.org/files/documents/2009/ACORN-FEC/5820_7_Notification_to_Iglesias.pdf)** > > 297.37 KB PDF file. Imagine that. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/224 "2009-09-12T05:26:16Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not anymore regarding any census work, so IMO that is a moot point. > > IMHO ACORN was judged guilty already by many here, you may want to think on the fairness of that. And yet I do remember that in the past ACORN was reinstated after courts **did** investigate and the prosecutors just can not manage to demonstrate that finding some unethical workers means that the whole organization is a criminal one. > > [http://www.judicialwatch.org/files/documents/2009/ACORN-FEC/5820\_7\_Notification\_to\_Iglesias.pdf](http://www.judicialwatch.org/files/documents/2009/ACORN-FEC/5820_7_Notification_to_Iglesias.pdf) > PDF file. > > Imagine that. Based on your post #216, which was incorrect in your accusation of who was lying (in bold, no less) , and the way you were politely corrected on that point, and your attempt to handwave it away, it seems you are the one glomming on to preconceived notions and reluctant to be dragged to reality. FYI: Something along the lines of “Oops, I was wrong”, or “Oops, I worded that poorly” or something similar is what was called for in your Post #218. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/225 "2009-09-12T05:28:57Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Based on your post #216, which was incorrect in your accusation of who was lying (in bold, no less) , and the way you were politely corrected on that point, and your attempt to handwave it away, it seems you are the one glomming on to preconceived notions and reluctant to be dragged to reality. > > FYI: Something along the lines of “Oops, I was wrong”, or “Oops, I worded that poorly” or something similar is what was called for in your Post #218. There is a big difference between accusing someone of **pushing** the news and reporting the news IMO. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/226 "2009-09-12T05:36:17Z")
Reality is over-rated, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/227 "2009-09-12T05:40:58Z")
As for being “dragged to reality” you only avoided dealing with the verdict on past pumped up accusations. The reality is that that reporter had an ax to grind, that does not mean his effort on finding some unethical workers was a bad one, what is bad is that then he and Fox goes further, accusing others of avoiding the proper way of reporting the news. IMHO the “intrepid filmmaker” needs to learn a lesson too. [http://wbal.com/apps/news/templates/story.aspx?articleid=35357&zoneid=2](http://wbal.com/apps/news/templates/story.aspx?articleid=35357&zoneid=2) > [@](#): > > The only information received in reference to this alleged criminal behavior was a YouTube video. Upon review by this office, the video appears to be incomplete. In addition, the audio portion could possibly have been obtained in violation of Maryland Law, Annotated Code of Maryland Courts and Judicial Proceedings Article §10-402, which requires two party consent. > > If it is determined that the audio portion now being heard on YouTube was illegally obtained, it is also illegal under Maryland Law to willfully use or willfully disclose the content of said audio. The penalty for the unlawful interception, disclosure or use of it is a felony punishable up to 5 years. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/228 "2009-09-12T11:09:32Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > What are you talking about? All ACORN would have to say is, “If we find even one fraudulent registration in the pile a worker submits, no payment will be forthcoming for any of it.” You really do need to read posts before replying to them, you know. It was already explained to you why they can’t validate registrations themselves. It’s illegal. Reread as often as necessary until it sinks in, m’kay? Sheesh! > [@](#): > > \As for not citing evidence that this is damaging the system, I gave you MULTIPLE cites. The issue was your side’s constant bleating about fraudulent _voting_. The actual number of fraudulent votes cast, or even specific alleged cases, remains at zero. Zero. Reread that as often as necessary. You’re backtracking to a claim of “damaging the system” would be amusing if it weren’t also unsupported, despite your frantic attempts to characterize them in such a way. Yes, there have been some fraudulent registrations submitted. But so what? What effect have they had? (again, zero) Why would ACORN even want to bother trying? (because they’re Democratic-leaning and therefore eeevuhl) > [@](#): > > You consistently misrepresent what I’ve said, ignore my cites, refuse to read my actual arguments and respond to arguments you wish I had made instead of the ones I actually made. When you can finally show a grasp of the concept of illegality, maybe we can get somewhere. Otherwise you might as well just link directly to the RW blog posts you’re paraphrasing here; it would save you some typing. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/229 "2009-09-12T11:24:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It was false and defamatory of ACORN as an institution. If what the employees did was a bad as it sounds like , its not exactly a ringing endorsement of ACORN that they found folks like that on only the sixth try. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/230 "2009-09-12T13:20:39Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > What are you talking about? All ACORN would have to say is, “If we find even one fraudulent registration in the pile a worker submits, no payment will be forthcoming for any of it.” > > Even if they did random spot checking, the potential of losing all the money would greatly reduce the incentive to cheat, wouldn’t it? > > Or, if they don’t want to be that draconian, they could say that for every fraudulent registration they uncover, the worker involved will forfeit 50 good ones. Or something like that. I’m not sure how this lines up with labor laws–I wouldn’t think you could agree to pay someone an hourly wage and then not pay it like that. But I could be wrong. In any event, in your scenario, what happens when some jackass comes up to the ACORN voter drive table and fills out a form for Heywood Jablowme at 6969 Penetration Park? The worker has to turn it in, and under your scenario he could be fired for it. Even worse, what if someone fills out a form with a completely plausible fake name and address? The worker can’t help that. Perhaps more to the point, there’s nothing stopping the worker from claiming that this is what happened if some of his forms turn out to have bogus names and addresses. So there’s no way for ACORN to prove wrongdoing. The only thing they can do is flag the forms that are obviously suspicious, let the workers go who are obviously faking a bunch of forms themselves (and are dumb enough to get caught), turn all the forms in as they are legally required to do, and let the county clerk’s verification process (which is going to happen anyway) sort out the good from the bad. In other words, exactly what happens. I’m also not sure what nefarious motive ACORN could have to deliberately turn in a bunch of fake registrations. They work mostly in low-income areas that are overwhelmingly Democratic, so if you accept their leftward bias (and I do) it’s in their interest to get as many people as possible registered to vote. How would turning in fakes further their cause at all? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/231 "2009-09-12T13:53:04Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > If what the employees did was a bad as it sounds like , its not exactly a ringing endorsement of ACORN that they found folks like that on only the sixth try. Sixth _city_, not tries. We really have no way of knowing how many times he tried this before he found someone willing to take the bait. All we’ve got is his gotcha ya video showing that he caught someone- and we’re supposed to paint the entire organization with that brush he’s trying to sell us. As I wondered, above- how long would he have kept doing it 'til he found someone that would take the bait? If I have a box filled with thousands of red and blue marbles, and I keep pulling marbles out until I get a red one… what usable information does that give us as to the percentage of red and blue marbles? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/232 "2009-09-12T13:59:21Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > I’m also not sure what nefarious motive ACORN could have to deliberately turn in a bunch of fake registrations. Because they just hate America, like most Democrats? **Sam** will have some better explanation for us soon, perhaps. Or perhaps not. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/233 "2009-09-12T14:41:49Z")
Here is another [BigGovernment.com](http://biggovernment.com/2009/09/10/chaos-for-glory/) link, in which Mr. O’Keefe attempts to justify his actions: [Quote=James O’Keefe] ACORN has ascended. They elect our politicians and receive billions in tax money. Their world is a revolutionary, socialistic, atheistic world, where all means are justifiable. And they create chaos, again, for it’s own sake. It is time for us to be studying and applying their tactics, many of which are ideologically neutral. It is time, as Hannah said as we walked out of the ACORN facility, for conservative activists to “create chaos for glory.” [/Quote] Frankly, he sounds like a bit of a nutter. I would like to point out that even if the ACORN employees taped were not in on this bit of theater, which remains to be seen, nothing that he has done so far bears any resemblance to responsible journalism: a) He made audio tapes without the consent of the other party, apparently in clear violation of Maryland law; b) Posted the tapes to YouTube, apparently without ever contacting the persons taped or their employer, for a prior response; c) Edited the tapes without giving any idea what has been redacted or why; d) Apparently has yet to give an accounting of when the tapes where made and the circumstances under which they were made. Indeed, the DC tapes are clearly date-stamped “2005 7 22”, which is most likely wildly incorrect. Obviously if it does turn out that any of the ACORN employees were willing accomplices, the effect is likely to be rather different than Mr. O’Keefe intended. What this sorry episode does seem to herald is a new era in which activist right-wingers embrace monkeywrenching tactics to serve their ends. An interesting development, but ethically questionable, in my view. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/234 "2009-09-12T15:13:44Z")
The editing and post-processing of the tapes worries me. I’m not sure the audio matches up at all. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/235 "2009-09-12T15:50:23Z")
After posting, I went back to the BigGovernment site and if one clicks on the ACORN link at the right-hand side of the page, it will open up a longer list of articles, including a claimed complete transcript of the Baltimore tape. I don’t have time right now to go though it in detail to see what matches up with the posted video clips. Still haven’t seen any dates anywhere. What the hey? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/236 "2009-09-12T15:53:23Z")
**El Kabong,** cub reporter! Ethical dilemmas aside, did you look at Mr. O’Keefe’s picture? Is there anyone, any where, under any condition of impairment, derangement, or batshit candy mint that would look at that prototypical yuppie scum and think “Pimp!” American cheese on white with mayo. So white, he walks onto the disco floor and suddenly, for a fifteen foot radius, nobody can dance for shit! Maybe the same people who would look at Barney Fife and think “Commando!” Look at Janet Reno and think “Supermodel!”. I got no idea why anybody went along with this, none whatsoever. Maybe an outreach sort of thing, let’s help this white boy get to prison as he so desperately seems to want… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/237 "2009-09-12T16:09:51Z")
Hey, it’s good enough evidence for **Bricker** to demand a legal investigation. There must be more there than for Bush, Cheney, and torture. We just need to go find it. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/238 "2009-09-12T16:16:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > **El Kabong,** cub reporter! Ethical dilemmas aside, did you look at Mr. O’Keefe’s picture? Of course I did. A 24-year-old guy, wearing suspenders, fer fuck’s sake. I didn’t mention it because people got eyes, haven’t they? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/239 "2009-09-12T16:23:15Z")
I’m new to the whole overthrow thing, but if I were in charge of engineering a “socialistic” society, I’m not sure “chaos for its own sake” would be a particularly useful tool for getting there. Is ACORN in fact \*so \*evil that they foment both totalitarianism and anarchy? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/240 "2009-09-12T16:25:03Z")
Well, ya know, given a choice between droll subtlety and smacking across the face with a day-old mackerel, I generally go mackerel. But that’s just me, no criticism intended, implied, or offered. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681.md?page=13)