# ACORN workers caught on tape apparently advising on child prostitution **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2009, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681 "2009-09-11T13:19:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/261 "2009-09-13T02:32:23Z")
Hmmm. You can probably get away with selling it to Jews and atheists. Maybe agnostics, not quite sure… ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/262 "2009-09-13T03:27:48Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > But there are those who are, shall we say, a little paranoid about the ACORN/Census connection. They’re not especially eager to talk to a census taker because as far as they’re concerned, the census taker is working for ACORN, and as far as they’re concerned, ACORN is not to be trusted. I can remind them about the penalties for disclosing information, and that we’re federal employees, just like the mailman. But they don’t care. They know what they’ve heard from the right-wing echo chamber, and that’s all they need to know. I’m trying desperately to find it in my heart to feel bad that the right wing (and, consequently, very red states) will be severely undercounted (and underrepresented in Congress) because so many of them are credulous, paranoid idiots, but I’m having SO much trouble managing it… ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/263 "2009-09-13T03:32:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, what this shows (in my view) is the likelihood that ACORN fosters a corporate culture that tells its workers that their primary mission is to help the people that come to them for help, regardless of the context. > > That’s a problem when the people that come to them for help are engaged in crime. Okay, so they are a little too helpful. They could probably use a good organization-wide course on the ethics of social workers. I can understand that. I’ve done my share of social work and at times I have crossed some lines. I’ve brought gifts to the forced marriages of crying pre-teen brides. I’ve clapped at female-circumcision ceremonies. Of course I find both of these things abhorrent and have spent a lot of time and energy fighting them. But when there is fucked up stuff all around you, sometimes you lose perspective. You spend so much time trying to do good in your context that you lose your ability to step out of that context and say “hey, wait, this stuff is horrific and I need to step outside my role and stop it.” I can understand how that happens, because it’s happened to me. Maybe there is no excuse for that. Luckily it’s a problem that is easily fixed. I don’t think any of us believe these ACORN employees are rotten to the bone. They are simply misguided. A simple corporate ethics program could easily stop that. Doesn’t prove much of anything about ACORN as an agency, and certainly doesn’t prove anything Barrack Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/264 "2009-09-13T04:19:24Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > But there are those who are, shall we say, a little paranoid about the ACORN/Census connection. They’re not especially eager to talk to a census taker because as far as they’re concerned, the census taker is working for ACORN, and as far as they’re concerned, ACORN is not to be trusted. I can remind them about the penalties for disclosing information, and that we’re federal employees, just like the mailman. But they don’t care. They know what they’ve heard from the right-wing echo chamber, and that’s all they need to know. > > But yeah, some of the lefties are so earnest that they make _my_ teeth hurt. And I hang out with these people. The Census Bureau severed ties with ACORN on Friday, effective immediately. > **[no107](https://mytwocensus.com/)** > **[Breitbart News Network](https://www.breitbart.com/)** > > Syndicated news and opinion website providing continuously updated headlines to top news and analysis sources. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/265 "2009-09-13T10:30:16Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Doesn’t prove much of anything about ACORN as an agency, and certainly doesn’t prove anything Barrack Obama. Which is probably why you could search this thread, or indeed my entire posting history, in vain for anything that says this has anything to do with Barack Obama, or indeed that this incident has anything to do with the vote registration business. I know the thread went in that direction, but not because of my OP, and in fact I posted several pages ago asking that we return our attention to this issue at hand,NOT the distraction of the vote business. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/266 "2009-09-13T13:06:27Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > They should not receive one more taxpayer dime until they are fully investigated. [Blackwater may have been involved in child prostitution](http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/07/blackwater-provided-child-prostitutes/)- they should not receive one more taxpayer dime until they are fully investigated. [The US military may have tortured detainees](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/13/AR2009011303372.html)- they should not receive one more taxpayer dime until they are fully investigated. Are you sure this is the tack you wish to take? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/267 "2009-09-13T13:50:45Z")
Shit yeah. I’ll throw ACORN under the bus if I can duct-tape Blackwater to them first. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/268 "2009-09-13T15:27:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, what this shows (in my view) is the likelihood that ACORN fosters a corporate culture that tells its workers that their primary mission is to help the people that come to them for help, regardless of the context. > > That’s a problem when the people that come to them for help are engaged in crime. So, ACORN does need to set boundries for their workers better, and by firing these two publicly, it seems they may be doing just that. On the whole though, I don’t think it is a bad idea to have an organization that helps people regardless of context. One of the horrible things about being in a situation outside the law is that there is very little that prevents you from slipping further and further outside. Advising someone on how to treat their teen prostitutes is pretty horrific, but the advice at least to keep them in school and clean helps to draw them back into society, and keeps them visible so that it is possible at least that if they are injured or killed, it may be noticed. It gives them daily access to adults to whom they could report their circumstance. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/269 "2009-09-13T17:53:23Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Blackwater may have been involved in child prostitution- they should not receive one more taxpayer dime until they are fully investigated. Absolutely. > [@Lightnin](#): > > The US military may have tortured detainees- they should not receive one more taxpayer dime until they are fully investigated. > > Are you sure this is the tack you wish to take? This one is absurd and you know it. Not only is the military an extension of the federal government, but justice is already planning to look into interrogation techniques, etc. It’s also amusing that, when the military is accused of torture or anything else, the first question asked is ‘how far up the chain of command did this order come from?’ But, with ACORN, the left just assumes that this is an individual matter and that the individuals breaking the law were just too idealistic to realize they were doing anything wrong. Laughable. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/270 "2009-09-13T18:54:10Z")
No, it is born of some familiarity with the organization itself, which one suspects you are innocent of. The US military is, well, military: it has a heirarchical structure with clearly defined chains of command. Orders, policies, and techniques descend from above, the chain of responsibility is rigid and defined. As well, we have already settled the law on this ourselves. It was we who established the principal of international law that a commander is responsible for the actions of his subordinates even if he is not directly and personally aware of those actions. Ignorance is no defense, if you don’t know what your subordinates are up to, tough shit, you are \*supposed \*to know. (See [Tomoyuki Yamashita - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomoyuki_Yamashita)) Then, of course, there is the additional cute wrinkle that not all who may be culpable are military personnel, there were “contractors” involved, whatever that means. ACORN is more of an umbrella organization, like many (if not all!) lefty institutions, rigid lines of hierarchy and enforcement are not our thing. We leave that to those who lack our capacity for independent thought and are more comfortable being told what is right. And, of course, the certain verdict of guilt which you are dependent upon is yet a bit murky, to my gimlet eye. That white boy couldn’t convince your grandmother that he was a pimp, much less a couple of urban black ladies who know one when they see one. Mr O’Keefe shows great promise in the mendacious arts, I see a bright future for him following the path set by the late, great Lee Atwater. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/271 "2009-09-13T19:37:21Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Read post #222 above. As long as they are the recipients of federal grants then they should be investigated if there is any evidence of wrongdoing. Not just one video but years worth of scandals. Those so called scandals were right wing noise. They have been pretty clean for a huge organization. Accusing them of voter fraud had been a BRICKER and right wing sport. It has been BS . But screaming at them enough makes people who hear the noise think there must be something behind it. But it is not true. The repubs have accused them of fraud over and over, but since they lack evidence, the prosecutors have thrown the cases out. Then of course the repubs fired the attorney generals who did not follow dictates and prosecute anyway. It is yet another right wing witch hunt. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/272 "2009-09-13T20:13:06Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > This one is absurd and you know it. Not only is the military an extension of the federal government, but justice is already planning to look into interrogation techniques, etc. It’s also amusing that, when the military is accused of torture or anything else, the first question asked is ‘how far up the chain of command did this order come from?’ But, with ACORN, the left just assumes that this is an individual matter and that the individuals breaking the law were just too idealistic to realize they were doing anything wrong. Laughable. Nope, not absurd- and you know it. Just because the military is an extension of the federal government does NOT excuse it from obeying the law. If ACORN, as a whole, is held responsible for the \*supposed \*actions of two of their employees (out of how many thousands?), then the US Military is responsible for the actions of its enlisted. Remember- the so-called evidence against ACORN was illegally gained… why do you give it such weight? And you know, it seems to me that you (and the Right in general) IS asking how far up the chain of command ACORN’s supposed actions go. ACORN has already been tried and found guilty in your eyes- on the basis of such little evidence that it would be thrown out of court. There is far more evidence that the US Military has been acting illegally… but because they are the GOP darling, they get a pass. ACORN, though? We don’t need no stinkin’ evidence- string 'em up! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/273 "2009-09-13T21:37:49Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The repubs have accused them of fraud over and over, but since they lack evidence, the prosecutors have thrown the cases out. I don’t want to feed the hijack of this thread to talk about voter fraud cases, but neither will I let you post completely untrue claims without comment. There have been multiple criminal convictions of ACORN workers for voting-related criminal fraud-type crimes. That’s “conviction” as in “NOT thrown out.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/274 "2009-09-13T22:27:48Z")
I find your lack of cites disturbing… ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/275 "2009-09-13T22:48:41Z")
I already cited multiple cases where ACORN workers were convicted of voter registration fraud. Here’s a fun cite: [Acorn Fraud Map](http://www.rottenacorn.com/activityMap.html) Among the CONVICTIONS listed: > [@](#): > > [ul] > [li]Two ex-ACORN employees were convicted in Denver of perjury for submitting false voter registrations.[/li][li]An ACORN employee in West Reading, PA, was sentenced to up to 23 months in prison for identity theft and tampering with records. A second ACORN worker pleaded not guilty to the same charges and is free on $10,000 bail.[/li][li]Three ACORN employees pleaded guilty, and four more were charged, in the worst case of voter registration fraud in Washington state history. More than 2,000 fraudulent voter registration cards were submitted by the group during a voter registration drive.[/li][/ul] Aside from those actual convictions listed, there are numerous indictments and charges against ACORN employees that are still in the courts. Here’s another [voter registration fraud conviction](http://www.wtvynews4.com/news/headlines/56646922.html) just a few days ago. Oh, and look: A DIRECTOR of ACORN was also [convicted of fraud](http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2009/aug/acorn-director-pleads-guilty): > [@](#): > > The attorney general’s office turned up the heat Monday on a national organization at the heart of a voter registration fraud investigation. > > Christopher Edwards, 33, the former Las Vegas field director for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, pleaded guilty to two gross misdemeanor counts of conspiracy to commit the crime of compensation for registration of voters. > > As part of a plea agreement, Edwards will testify against the other two defendants in the case — ACORN and its former regional director, Amy Busefink. > > The anti-poverty organization has local chapters in 100 cities across the country and national offices in New Orleans, New York and Washington. > > State investigators consider Edwards the mastermind of an illegal incentive program at the local ACORN office that, with the approval of Busefink and national ACORN officials, encouraged the collection of fraudulent voter registration forms during the 2008 campaign season. So… Paying for registrations. Remember when you guys said ACORN doesn’t do that? This guy is now implicating people high up in the ACORN organization. But wait, there’s more: > [@](#): > > About the same time in Pittsburgh, a half-dozen ACORN workers were charged with violating a similar Pennsylvania law prohibiting quotas and other incentives in voter registration drives. Yeah, this organization is just clean as a whistle, isn’t it? Who WOULDN’T want it heavily involved in election activities and the census? They’re all just doe-eyed innocent liberals who want the best for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/276 "2009-09-13T23:07:41Z")
[http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/pol/1332364718.html](http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/pol/1332364718.html) > [@](#): > > …Lawyers for the grass-roots community organizing group ACORN and its staff scoffed Tuesday at a plea agreement state prosecutors made with the man alleged to be the mastermind of a phony voter registration scheme… > > Edwards was ACORN’s Las Vegas field director during the 2008 election season and admitted to creating the bonus program at the heart of the voter registration controversy, according to court documents. > > Busefink’s defense attorney, Kevin Stolworthy, said Tuesday that state prosecutors “are trying to work their way up the food chain, but the food chain stops with him (Edwards).” > Authorities alleged that Edwards ran an incentive program known as “Blackjack” or “21+” that rewarded employees with $5 extra per shift if they brought in 21 or more completed voter registration cards. > > Such an incentive program is prohibited by Nevada law, which states it is “unlawful for a person to provide compensation for registering voters that is based upon the total number of voters a person registers.”… (emphasis added to deceive the reader) Please note: the crime alleged was incentivizing for more registrations, not false registrations. Wow. Pretty major stuff there, **Sam.** The guy pulls down a $500 fine and community service, totally huge. Too bad he wasn’t Attorney General, he could have got a Medal of Freedom… So, you missed this part, huh? Managed to find those cites, couldn’t find this one? Gee, I just Googled Amy Busefink, and there it was. Don’t know how it escaped your notice. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/277 "2009-09-13T23:16:06Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Oh, and look: A DIRECTOR of ACORN was also [convicted of fraud](http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2009/aug/acorn-director-pleads-guilty) I just wanted to say, none of the text you “quoted” is from the link you provided. Is that fraud? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/278 "2009-09-13T23:19:19Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Aside from those actual convictions listed, there are numerous indictments and charges against ACORN employees that are still in the courts. > > Here’s another [voter registration fraud conviction](http://www.wtvynews4.com/news/headlines/56646922.html) just a few days ago. Nowhere in that article about Rosie Lyles does it mention ACORN. Some people would say this shows a pattern of fraud in your posts about ACORN’s alleged fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/279 "2009-09-13T23:35:38Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Nowhere in that article about Rosie Lyles does it mention ACORN. > > Some people would say this shows a pattern of fraud in your posts about ACORN’s alleged fraud. Huh. I figured it was just left out of the article–but [another more in-depth article](http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20070817/LATEST/70817026?Title=Two-accused-of-voter-fraud-in-Hale-County) I found when googling the name also didn’t turn up any ACORN connection. Sam, I hope you show up either to apologize unreservedly for including that link, or to explain why you included it. It kinda calls your other evidence into question. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/280 "2009-09-13T23:38:26Z")
> [@](#): > > …A voter fraud investigation in Hale County has led to a guilty plea by a Greensboro woman. Attorney General Troy King said Rosie Lyles pleaded guilty Monday to third-degree criminal possession of a forged instrument with intent to defraud. The instrument was a forged affidavit of an absentee voter. > > Lyles was sentenced to two years on probation. During that time, she is prohibited from participating in any absentee voting or voter registration activity. She must also pay about $400 in court costs… [http://www.abc3340.com/news/stories/0909/655463.html](http://www.abc3340.com/news/stories/0909/655463.html) Oh, sure, its only one vote registration in one country of South Carolina, but what if there was one of those in every county in America! Thousands, I tell you, thousands! The full weight of her sentence, which might be offered on a charge of shoplifting, is richly deserved! And don’t even think of trying to distract us with stories about US Attorney’s being pressured to file bogus voter fraud charges to embarass Democratic candidates, this is about the dreadful threat of ACORN, and we will not be distracted by trivialities! No sir! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681.md?page=15)