# ACORN workers caught on tape apparently advising on child prostitution **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2009, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681 "2009-09-11T13:19:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/781 "2009-12-11T01:52:17Z")
I got it! It’s “MANY”! So long as that variable is defined as being a number greater than the number of ACORN registrations submitted, _regardles_s of how many such registrations there may be, then ACORN has not submitted “MANY” registrations! Hence, “Nope, they did not” becomes a valid statement. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/782 "2009-12-11T13:23:48Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It’s just Shodan throwing a tantrum. He doesn’t seem to be informed enough to contribute in a more meaningful way, so this is what we get. No, not at all. You and others of your sort were claiming that ACORN is not responsible for the activities of its employees. Now you are claiming that they are. Good - that means my point was carried. ACORN is responsible for the actions of its employees. **Diogenes** claims that ACORN didn’t perform any services. Voter registration is a service. Ergo, either **Diogenes** is wrong, or ACORN did perform services. No doubt all of you clamoring to deny the videos will agree that, even if it had been forged, it presents something that is otherwise established, and is therefore perfectly worthwhile for a news organization to use to influence an election. Just like the National Guard forgeries for Bush. Right? 😃 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/783 "2009-12-11T13:54:40Z")
ACORN didn’t perform any services FOR THE ERSATZ PIMP AND HO, which anyone of normal intelligence who was arguing sincerely would have been able to discern was the original intent of the post that you’re arguing about two pages ago! Your disingenuous attempt to make the case that it’s being argued that ACORN doesn’t provide services of any kind to anybody demonstrates traits usually found _sub pontis_. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/784 "2009-12-11T14:02:08Z")
**Shodan,** as a fellow conservative, I would love to agree with you but that is some fucked up repugnant “logic”. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/785 "2009-12-11T14:07:04Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > **Shodan,** as a fellow conservative, I would love to agree with you but that is some fucked up repugnant “logic”. It’s alright - he concluded with a :D. That makes everything okay. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/786 "2009-12-11T15:16:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, not at all. You and others of your sort were claiming that ACORN is not responsible for the activities of its employees. Now you are claiming that they are. Good - that means my point was carried. > > ACORN is responsible for the actions of its employees. Before we get too far into equating very different things, let’s get some specificity in here. 1. IANAL, but to the best of my understanding, ACORN is responsible for the consequences of its employees’ actions, when they are acting in their capacity of ACORN employees. So if any harm befell anyone as a result of these interviews, ACORN would be legally liable. 2. There’s a world of difference between that, and a claim that this alleged incident somehow calls into question the veracity of ACORN’s voter registration efforts. You’d have to show some causal connection or relationship that is certainly not implied by ACORN’s legal liability for the acts of its employees. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/787 "2009-12-11T15:36:40Z")
Not to mention that there are two different organizations under the ACORN banner, one that assists in voter registration and ACORN Housing, which helps low-income people acquire housing. I believe the offices that were victims of this idiotic sting were ACORN Housing. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/788 "2009-12-11T15:42:29Z")
There also has to be a plaintiff in order for there to be liability. As far as I know, no one has claimed any injury as a result of the pimp scam. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/789 "2009-12-11T16:47:20Z")
**Shodan** , do you have any intention of addressing my post #772? I would very much appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/790 "2009-12-11T18:43:35Z")
Well, darn! I thought I had it with the semantic thingy! Should have realized that _really_ creative minds are not bound by pedestrian realities. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/791 "2009-12-11T18:56:52Z")
You bunch of spoilsports. Trying to weasel in your cowardly “facts” and your faggoty “reasoning” in **Shodan** ’s semantic ass-pulls, liberal (hehe) picking of nits and ballistic feces. You were \*supposed \*to go “Aaaaaah !” and marvel at the rapier wit, goddammit ! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/792 "2009-12-11T19:00:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, not at all. You and others of your sort were claiming that ACORN is not responsible for the activities of its employees. Now you are claiming that they are. Good - that means my point was carried. > > ACORN is responsible for the actions of its employees. > > **Diogenes** claims that ACORN didn’t perform any services. Voter registration is a service. Ergo, either **Diogenes** is wrong, or ACORN did perform services. > > No doubt all of you clamoring to deny the videos will agree that, even if it had been forged, it presents something that is otherwise established, and is therefore perfectly worthwhile for a news organization to use to influence an election. Just like the National Guard forgeries for Bush. Right? 😃 > > Regards, > Shodan If you backpedal any faster you’ll go back in time. Which might be a good thing, maybe you can meet your past self and let him know you should understand an issue before mouthing off about it. Look Shodan, you’re just spewing gibberish now, maybe you should just sit this one out until you’re willing to discuss issues intelligently. Fact: ACORN isn’t in the business of providing Prostitution Advice. Fact: If one of its workers did provide prostitution advice, they were not acting in their capacity as ACORN employees. Fact: Shodan doesn’t let facts get in the way of pathetic partisan mewlings. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/793 "2009-12-11T19:05:34Z")
ACORN is guilty of pissing off Republicans. They have a lot of power and took them down on BS trumped up crap. It was a setup by a couple of conservative clowns. No crimes were committed . They just gave the repubs a chance to make a lot of noise. It worked. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/794 "2009-12-11T19:36:45Z")
True enough, B’rer **Gonzo** , but there’s an upside. Why did the Forces of Darkness spend so much energy on a feckless bunch of idealists, slogging door to door to register a few thousand poor folks here, a few thousand there? Because it works! Because the cumulative effect was making them bleed in the close races. Because the vision of the lower and working classes registered to vote and politically motivated is what makes them wake up screaming and clutching for their banky. And it doesn’t take major expenditures for PR hacks and doesn’t require massive funding. Shoe leather and determination is all that is required, and it fucking works! Yeee-haw, ride 'em and spank 'em! A hard lesson, true. Shoulda knowed. But they taught us what they fear, and that is useful. Oh, yeah! Power to the people, when the people lead, the leaders will follow. Its dull, its tedious, its plodding, but it works. Took our enemies to teach us, but if we learn it, look out! As a gesture of appreciation, I propose that we cut the Straight to the Wall List by half. Of course, I’m willing to compromise on that… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/795 "2009-12-11T19:54:04Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > . > > Fact: ACORN isn’t in the business of providing Prostitution Advice. Agreed. > [@](#): > > Fact: If one of its workers did provide prostitution advice, they were not acting in their capacity as ACORN employees. Agreed, however: ACORN _is_ in the business of providing tax and mortgage advice. If one of its workers did provide advice intended to conceal illegal income, or use illegal income to finance a mortgage, then that worker was indeed acting in his capacity as an ACORN employee. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/796 "2009-12-11T20:15:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Agreed. > > Agreed, however: > > ACORN _is_ in the business of providing tax and mortgage advice. > > If one of its workers did provide advice intended to conceal illegal income, or use illegal income to finance a mortgage, then that worker was indeed acting in his capacity as an ACORN employee. I’m willing to bet that you can go through ACORN’s manual with a fine toothed comb and you’d never find that they tell their workers to assist in hiding illegal monies. In our burger joint analogy above, they sell food, but they don’t sell spitburgers. Just because they sell things to eat you can’t argue that someone spooging on a hamburger is acting in compliance with company policies. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/797 "2009-12-11T20:26:06Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > If you backpedal any faster you’ll go back in time. Which might be a good thing, maybe you can meet your past self and let him know you should understand an issue before mouthing off about it. Nope, not even close. > [@](#): > > Look Shodan, you’re just spewing gibberish now, maybe you should just sit this one out until you’re willing to discuss issues intelligently. Also wrong. > [@](#): > > Fact: ACORN isn’t in the business of providing Prostitution Advice. > Fact: If one of its workers did provide prostitution advice, they were not acting in their capacity as ACORN employees. > Fact: Shodan doesn’t let facts get in the way of pathetic partisan mewlings. **Bricker** has dealt with the first two of your fantasies. The third is equally imaginative. And I mean that in a bad way. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/798 "2009-12-11T20:30:37Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m willing to bet that you can go through ACORN’s manual with a fine toothed comb and you’d never find that they tell their workers to assist in hiding illegal monies. So any organization that does not explicitly state its criminal intentions in its handbook is exempt from responsibility for what its employees do? I don’t think so. Say something else ridiculous - I need further chuckles. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/799 "2009-12-11T20:33:19Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I’m willing to bet that you can go through ACORN’s manual with a fine toothed comb and you’d never find that they tell their workers to assist in hiding illegal monies. > > In our burger joint analogy above, they sell food, but they don’t sell spitburgers. Just because they sell things to eat you can’t argue that someone spooging on a hamburger is acting in compliance with company policies. Of course. But surely you must know that the standard is not “acting in compliance with company policies.” If that were so, all any organization would have to do to shield itself from _respondeat superior_ liability is issue clean policies. There are a couple of principles that, on balance, establish that an organization is liable for the wrongful acts of its agents. One is whether the organization benefits from the wrongful act of the employee. In this case, it does, since it captures fees from completed transactions and uses its aggregate count of the people it assists to show the continued need for funding and grants. Another is, as you mentioned in your post above, whether the agents are acting within the time/space and subject matter scope of their agency. I know you know this one, because you said it. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/800 "2009-12-11T20:36:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So any organization that does not explicitly state its criminal intentions in its handbook is exempt from responsibility for what its employees do? I don’t think so. I was about to make a point, but **Shodan** has made it for me (well, sort of, ish). While I imagine I would not imply criminal intentions as he has done here, **Shodan** is correct in that it’s not enough to simply not include such behaviour in company policy. That’s the neutral position. What needs to be seen also is whether such behaviour is against company policy, and if when it happens it is actually punished, and to what extent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681.md?page=41)