# ACORN workers caught on tape apparently advising on child prostitution **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2009, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681 "2009-09-11T13:19:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/141 "2009-09-11T18:26:41Z")
Look is it newsworthy? Yes. Should ACORN take some heat for it? Yes. Can ACORN take some lessons on screening personnel from this? Of course. Is it indicitive of ACORNs purpose and/or actual accomplishments? No. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/142 "2009-09-11T18:28:25Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Yeah, that was worded very poorly. A better example would be from my mandatory annual ethics training - we were told of a case where a salesman bribed a customer to get a sale. The company did not direct him to do so, but the salesman was acting as an agent of the company, so the company was fined millions of dollars. > > In another case, an employee violated company procedure and dumped some toxic chemicals in a ditch because he didn’t want to take them to the proper disposal facility. Again, the company itself was fined because the employee was acting as an agent for the company. > > I see no difference between this an an ACORN employee in an ACORN office actively colluding to defraud the government and hide child prostitution. ACORN should be held responsible. That makes more sense, and I see where you’re coming from on this. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/143 "2009-09-11T18:34:25Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The question I have is, if this is all completely harmless and has no effect on the eletion, why is ACORN so willing to pay for so many fraudulent registrations? They pay per registration, so this is cost them a lot of money. Yet they seem to be perfectly okay with it. Why is that? I think these are fair questions, and will attempt to answer them even though it is primarily engaging in supposition on both of our parts. As to why they pay per registration is likely because it is the simplest and most cost-effective method of compensation. Obviously paying per hour is not acceptable if you suspect your workforce may be unmotivated. Paying per valid registration (or at least non-suspicious registration) requires that you keep track of who submitted each registration up until the time that it is checked. This is certainly possible but probably would be more costly than simply bundling the registrations at the local level, paying the submitter, and then validating them at some centralized location. > [@](#): > > Also, if ACORN’s sole interest was to make sure that legitimate voters are registered, why do they have this habit of turning all the registrations in right at the deadline? Why don’t they turn them in as they receive them, to maximize the electoral office’s chance of getting them all processed? In the first article I linked to, they said that some of the registrations had been collected as early as July, and were held until the last minute then turned in. If you take ACORN’s word that they are simply trying to help voters get registered, this seems like bizarre behavior. I agree that this is suspect behavior. I could perhaps see a situation where the policy was to make one submission of registration to allow for the maximum amount of time to register new voters. But in general it does seem to be an attempt to overwhelm the system. Of course same-day registration would eliminate all of these issues. Or hell go the ND route and don’t require registration at all - show up with proof that you live in the district and cast your ballot. But I think we both know why these are not proposed as a solution to ACORN’s activities. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/144 "2009-09-11T18:51:57Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I think these are fair questions, and will attempt to answer them even though it is primarily engaging in supposition on both of our parts. > > As to why they pay per registration is likely because it is the simplest and most cost-effective method of compensation. Obviously paying per hour is not acceptable if you suspect your workforce may be unmotivated. Paying per valid registration (or at least non-suspicious registration) requires that you keep track of who submitted each registration up until the time that it is checked. This is certainly possible but probably would be more costly than simply bundling the registrations at the local level, paying the submitter, and then validating them at some centralized location. Okay… So what should ACORN’s liability be if this practice has been repeatedly shown to result in fraudulent registrations being turned in to election officials - and ACORN refuses to modify the policy? An analogy would be a private company paying its employees to remove toxic waste from a facility, paying them by the pound of waste removed, and not checking to see where they were taking it. If they continued such a policy after many such employees were found to be breaking the law by dumping the waste in non-approved locations, would you not hold the company liable if they did not clean up their procedures and remove the system that gave incentives to employees who break the law? > [@](#): > > I agree that this is suspect behavior. I could perhaps see a situation where the policy was to make one submission of registration to allow for the maximum amount of time to register new voters. But in general it does seem to be an attempt to overwhelm the system. I don’t see how that helps maximize the time to register new voters, unless they are only allowed one submission per election season. But that’s not the case. They could easily submit registrations in small bundles the day after they receive them from the field. There’s no rule that says they all have to come in at once. > [@](#): > > Of course same-day registration would eliminate all of these issues. Or hell go the ND route and don’t require registration at all - show up with proof that you live in the district and cast your ballot. But I think we both know why these are not proposed as a solution to ACORN’s activities. The U.S. election system is screwed up in many ways. As a Canadian, I’m just baffled by how difficult Americans find the whole process. Voting and counting votes just isn’t that hard. I suspect the U.S. system is so convoluted because so many different groups try to game the system and laws are passed willy-nilly to benefit one group over another and over time it’s become a patchwork mess. Take your problem with electronic voting machines. In Canada, we fill in a ballot manually. We hand it to the attendant, and it goes into an electronic machine. If we made an error, such as filling in two boxes or not marking plainly enough, the machine rejects the card and we go back and fill out a new one. If the machine accepts it, the vote is tabulated electronically, but the written card goes into a file which is kept to cross-check the machine count. So you have an instant electronic tally AND a paper trail. There are no spoiled ballots because the voter is right there when the machine accepts the ballot or rejects it. Where’s the problem? But that’s a hijack. Back to the ACORN bashing. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/145 "2009-09-11T18:51:58Z")
I can sort of understand why this thread has moved in the direction of voter registrations, but the OP was about the willingness pf specific ACORN employees to turn a blind eye to the creation of a brothel and actively assist the brothel owner in concealing his true business, and in concealing the use of child prostitutes. When I posted, the reports were that this was a solo incident. Now there are two such incidents. It seems reasonable to ask, as others have, if ACORN has a corporate culture that encourages looking the other way when people ask for help doing illegal stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/146 "2009-09-11T18:55:41Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Now, with that hijack over, lets see how any of this fits in with the subject of the OP. You, **yorick** , and a few others seem to be ready, willing and eager to believe that whatever this so-far very poorly reported story of support for prostitution may turn out to be, it shows that there is something fundamentally wrong with ACORN as an organization. And you, apparently, don’t know how to read. I stated in my first post that my speculations about ACORN as an organization were based on the assumption that the tapes portrayed the situation accurately. I did not assert that they did. My initial post was in response to people who were defending them using the same set of assumptions. I have been eager to believe nothing, actually. Try again. This time, use less hand waiving. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/147 "2009-09-11T18:56:37Z")
All right, all right, I confess! I’ll tell you what’s wrong with ACORN, and so many other lefty populist organizations. They trust poor people. This is a political bias, to be sure. They hire poor people whenever they get the chance, they feel an obligation to do so. And so, they get screwed over. Time and again, and again, because they _will_ keep doing it. They will not stick thier nose up the applicant’s ass and ferret out every possible misdemeanor, because they trust poor people. Now, of course, the opposite prejudice is a tendency to distrust guys with expensive suits and spreadsheets, financial types, and so forth. A blind, unfounded prejudice, to be sure, since we all know that these men are the very paragons of virtue and fair dealing. ACORN is foolish to trust the poor without suspicion. Granted. I confess. Poor people are no less likely to screw you than a white guy in a suit, they just aren’t as good at it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/148 "2009-09-11T19:01:18Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Okay… So what should ACORN’s liability be if this practice has been repeatedly shown to result in fraudulent registrations being turned in to election officials - and ACORN refuses to modify the policy? It has been explained to you repeatedly that they are _legally required_ to submit them _anyway_. Gawdamighty. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/149 "2009-09-11T19:03:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You know me, ever alert for the rampant hyocrisy of the left. We had a thread a while ago in which employees of Backwater were accused of having used prostitutes, even child prostitutes. [Refresh your memory here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=528868) > > And … what do you know? Although a few posters did hop on the Blackwater-is-evil-a-ha! bandwagon, most noted the flimsy evidence and drew distinctions between a few Blackwater employees and the organization itself. > > I’m just sayin’, is all. Then I’m still trying to figure out what legitimate reason you had for starting this thread. ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/150 "2009-09-11T19:08:04Z")
I like how Blackwater is a “conservative thing” and Acorn is a “liberal thing.” Acorn doesn’t have anything to do with anything. Scaremongers trying to make Acorn out like a branch of the Democratic party are overreaching. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/151 "2009-09-11T19:10:54Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > I like how Blackwater is a “conservative thing” and Acorn is a “liberal thing.” Acorn doesn’t have anything to do with anything. Scaremongers trying to make Acorn out like a branch of the Democratic party are overreaching. Have none of you realized that Bricker was attempting to pay a compliment with his Backwater post? That’s how I read it, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/152 "2009-09-11T19:11:34Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Have none of you realized that Bricker was attempting to pay a compliment with his Backwater post? A blackhanded compliment? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/153 "2009-09-11T19:16:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I can sort of understand why this thread has moved in the direction of voter registrations, but the OP was about the willingness pf specific ACORN employees to turn a blind eye to the creation of a brothel and actively assist the brothel owner in concealing his true business, and in concealing the use of child prostitutes. > > When I posted, the reports were that this was a solo incident. Now there are two such incidents. It seems reasonable to ask, as others have, if ACORN has a corporate culture that encourages looking the other way when people ask for help doing illegal stuff. The answer is no. Sorry to disappoint you. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/154 "2009-09-11T19:24:00Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Okay… So what should ACORN’s liability be if this practice has been repeatedly shown to result in fraudulent registrations being turned in to election officials - and ACORN refuses to modify the policy? ACORN doesn’t have a CHOICE about the policy. Please inform yourself. They are required BY LAW to submit the bogus registrations. They are not ALLOWED to decide what registrations are or or not valid. All they can do is flag the ones they are suspicious about, which they do CONSISTENTLY, and which is the _reason we know about them in the first place._ What part of this is not getting through to you? One more time - ACORN is REQUIRED BY LAW to submit all registration forms, regardless of how bogus they look. It’s not their policy to change, m’kay. It’s the law. Could you please acknowledge that you understand this point. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/155 "2009-09-11T19:30:22Z")
[quote=“C3, post:8, topic:509681”] > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The answer is no. Sorry to disappoint you. They don’t have such a corporate culture? For sure? So you’d be very surprised to hear of a third or fourth similar incident? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/156 "2009-09-11T19:33:05Z")
Give it up, **Bricker**. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/157 "2009-09-11T19:38:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > They don’t have such a corporate culture? For sure? They do not. Sorry to piss in your cheerios. > [@](#): > > So you’d be very surprised to hear of a third or fourth similar incident? Not a bit. Four people out of thousands is a very tiny sample. I’m sure I could find at least four cops who have taken bribes from pimps. That doesn’t mean that there is a culture in law enforcement that encourages taking bribes from pimps. Unless you can produce a shred of evidence that any of the ACORN employees involved in this story were acting with the knowledge, approval or encouragement of ACORN, either tacitly or explicitly (and to what end, by the way?), then all you’re doing is try to score cheap political points against ACORN, and smear people and a “culture” that you don’t actually know a damn thing about. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/158 "2009-09-11T19:40:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They do not. Sorry to piss in your cheerios. > > Not a bit. Four people out of thousands is a very tiny sample. I’m sure I could find at least four cops who have taken bribes from pimps. That doesn’t mean that there is a culture in law enforcement that encourages taking bribes from pimps. > > Unless you can produce a shred of evidence that any of the ACORN employees involved in this story were acting with the knowledge, approval or encouragement of ACORN, either tacitly or explicitly (and to what end, by the way?), then all you’re doing is try to score cheap political points against ACORN, and smear people and “culture” that you don’t actually know a damn thing about. It seems to me you’re not applying the same strict standard when you talk about the guilt of Bush and Cheney for various acts committed by others. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/159 "2009-09-11T19:40:14Z")
I’d call it more of a consistent failing of the nonprofit style organization, where people have to deal directly with the crazy fucking end of real life on the streets and all kinds of loonybots, without making judgments and treating them all equally. You kind of have to give the lowest-end of your employees the highest possible autonomy. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681/160 "2009-09-11T19:41:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It seems to me you’re not applying the same strict standard when you talk about the guilt of Bush and Cheney for various acts committed by others. What are you talking about? Specifically – what are you talking about? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acorn-workers-caught-on-tape-apparently-advising-on-child-prostitution/509681.md?page=9)