# acronym?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [June 19, 2011, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021 "2011-06-19T11:15:41Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Shig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shig)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2011, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021/1 "2011-06-19T11:15:41Z")
So, by definition (as far as I can tell) an acronym is an abbreviation of a phrase that spells a word. Is this correct? SCUBA, RADAR, AIDS, etc. A friend referred to LL Cool J (which stands for “Ladies Love Cool James”) as being an acronym. Then we got to talking and he claims that HBO and NFL are acronyms. They aren’t though. …Correct? What are they then? Abbreviations? That seems to not totally fit either. Is there a word for an acronym that doesn’t spell a word? I know that sounds dumb, but I can’t think of a better wording. Thanks
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### Author:  [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2011, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021/2 "2011-06-19T11:43:32Z")
The examples you give for acronyms (with the exception of AIDS) were not words before they became acronyms. Strictly speaking, an acronym is an abbreviation that is pronounced like a word, mainly because the combination of vowels and consonants makes them easy to pronounce that way.
Many acronyms, such as AIDS, are the same as existing words, either by coincidence or design. Other abbreviations, such as HBO and NFL are simply abbreviations. The example of LL Cool J doesn’t really fit either mold.
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### Author:  [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2011, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021/3 "2011-06-19T11:53:45Z")
Missed the edit window.
I should have said that abbreviations like HBO and NFL can also be called initialisms, because the abbreviation is made from the initial letters of the words that they stand for. Acronyms like SCUBA and RADAR are also initialisms, but of a special type
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### Author:  [@Shig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shig)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2011, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021/4 "2011-06-19T12:02:44Z")
OK, right, what I meant was that the acronyms become a pronounceable word. I guess I worded it incorrectly. Either way though, I was hoping there was a word that fit this perfectly. Guess maybe there isn’t.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2011, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021/5 "2011-06-19T12:04:11Z")
Rule of thumb (“ROT”): If you pronounce the letters, it’s an initialism. If you say a made-up word, it’s an acronym.
FBI is pronounced “eff-bee-eye” not “fibby” or “f’bee”. Hence initialism.
Laser is pronounced “LAY-zer”. Hence acronym.
Heck, laser is word-ified to the point that nobody spells it LASER anymore. Ditto RADAR vs radar.
As with everything in English, this isn’t absolute, but it’s good most places most times.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021/6 "2011-06-19T15:41:06Z")
If you’re a descriptivist and you’re not in some kind of extremely formal context, the answer is easy.
They’re all acronyms.
Really. Nobody in the world cares about initialisms. If you ever find an editor who does, get the cement shoes and work with the successor.
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### Author:  [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021/7 "2011-06-19T16:11:36Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> If you’re a descriptivist and you’re not in some kind of extremely formal context, the answer is easy.
>
> They’re all acronyms.
>
> Really. Nobody in the world cares about initialisms. If you ever find an editor who does, get the cement shoes and work with the successor.
I’ll throw my vote this way, in spite of having been corrected recently on the misuse of the term in a joke thread dealing with nonsense like HHM Rhonda, where I called the HHM an acronym. I acknowledged my error in the thread, but after checking Dick I was persuaded that **Exapno Mapcase** has expressed my real sense of the issue.
And even though FUBAR is a perfect acronym in every sense, I like FAFFH better! 😃
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### Author:  [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021/8 "2011-06-19T16:52:07Z")
They’re all acronyms. This is how the term is used in practice. Also, for what it’s worth:
> [@Merriam-Webster](#):
>
> acronym - a word (as NATO, radar, or laser) formed from the initial letter or letters of each of the successive parts or major parts of a compound term; also : an abbreviation (as FBI) formed from initial letters : initialism
To be clear: if you specifically want to refer to things like “NFL” but not “SCUBA”, then you can say “initialisms”. But the collection called “acronyms” includes them all.
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### Author:  [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021/9 "2011-06-19T19:08:12Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#):
>
> FBI is pronounced “eff-bee-eye” not “fibby” or “f’bee.”
I guess you don’t hang out with the same LEOs that I do. I hear Fibby all the time. Typically, it refers to an individual agent rather than the whole organization, so I am not sure what to take from that, HOWEVER…
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> If you’re a descriptivist and you’re not in some kind of extremely formal context, the answer is easy.
>
> They’re all acronyms.
>
> Really. Nobody in the world cares about initialisms. If you ever find an editor who does, get the cement shoes and work with the successor.
…Exapno nailed it.
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### Author:  [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021/10 "2011-06-19T19:47:50Z")
Ignorance fought! Okay, so “words” such as POTUS, FLOTUS, CONUS, are acronyms. What is the term for “words” formed by combing the first syllables of words in a phrase? E.g., NaBisCo\*, NatCom, DEFCON? The USSR was really big on naming committees in that style (unfortunately examples escape me at the moment).
* * *
\*Does being a brand name eliminate a “word” from being called this term?
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021/11 "2011-06-19T19:59:57Z")
> [@Toucanna](#):
>
> The USSR was really big on naming committees in that style (unfortunately examples escape me at the moment).
Politburo?
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### Author:  [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021/12 "2011-06-19T20:12:05Z")
> [@Toucanna](#):
>
> NaBisCo
Interestingly enough, in the OED’s entry for acronym “Nabisco” is mentioned in one of the reference quotations.
acronym, n.
Pronunciation: /ˈækrənɪm/
Etymology: \< acro- comb. form + -onym after homonym n.
orig. U.S.
A word formed from the initial letters of other words.
1943 Amer. N. & Q. Feb. 167/1 Words made up of the initial letters or syllables of
other words‥I have seen‥called by the name acronym.
1947 Word Study 6 (title) Acronym Talk, or ‘Tomorrow’s English’.
1950 S. Potter Our Lang. 163 Acronyms or telescoped names like nabisco from National Biscuit Company.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021/13 "2011-06-19T20:38:00Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#):
>
> Politburo?
And Orgburo, Sovnarkom, and Glavkomtrud.
Yep, Nabisco is an acronym, even though it used multiple letters. Of course so does radar (radio detecting and ranging) yet nobody seems to care (or notice).
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### Author:  [@StephenG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StephenG)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021/14 "2011-06-19T20:59:12Z")
> [@Pasta](#):
>
> They’re all acronyms. This is how the term is used in practice. …
>
> To be clear: if you specifically want to refer to things like “NFL” but not “SCUBA”, then you can say “initialisms”. But the collection called “acronyms” includes them all.
I’d actually take the opposite tack: they’re all initialisms, but a subset – acronyms – are those that are pronounceable as words rather than just letters.
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> Nobody in the world cares about initialisms. If you ever find an editor who does, get the cement shoes and work with the successor.
It is true that nobody cares. Generally… but there can be exceptions. For instance, when you have to refer to a server that runs SQL, is SQL an acronym (“see-quel”), so that you write “a SQL server”, or just an intialism (“ess-cue-ell”), so that you write “an SQL server”?\*
\*Correct answer: You rephrase the sentence, of course, to avoid the issue.
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### Author:  [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021/15 "2011-06-19T21:10:32Z")
> [@StephenG](#):
>
> I’d actually take the opposite tack: they’re all initialisms, but a subset – acronyms – are those that are pronounceable as words rather than just letters.
I would be happy with “initialism” referring to the whole set. No one ever uses the word “initialism” anyway, so I take no stance on its usage. But the word “acronym” definitely covers the whole set.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021/16 "2011-06-19T21:44:39Z")
> [@StephenG](#):
>
> It is true that nobody cares. Generally… but there can be exceptions. For instance, when you have to refer to a server that runs SQL, is SQL an acronym (“see-quel”), so that you write “a SQL server”, or just an intialism (“ess-cue-ell”), so that you write “an SQL server”?\*
What you’re pointing out is a distinction. But it doesn’t matter whether anybody refers to that distinction as one between initialisms or acronyms. And I’d bet that no writer constructing the sentence decides thinks about it using those two words. It’s always: will people sound that out or not? Simple as that.
Some collections of letters take on word form the instant they are created - NASA, e.g. Some go both ways - SQL, URL. Some never do even after years - NCAA, NAACP. Some become words, some differ depending on context. Every possible variation can be found.
And do you ever see statements to the effect that “SQL is now an acronym and no longer an initialism and so requires an ‘a’”? Not even in technical circles, to my knowledge. It’s a point for internet message boards, not for writers.
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### Author:  [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021/17 "2011-06-20T00:41:49Z")
What about things like ASAP. I know people that say A-S-A-P and those who use it like a two syllable word “I need a cab here A-sap”
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### Author:  [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021/18 "2011-06-20T00:58:16Z")
One of the most unfunny things I can think of is to see where somebody (often with an air of erudition) will try to present one of the good old Anglo-Saxon swear words (or even an everyday word like STOP) as if it were an acronym.
This is a prime example: [Humor & Whimsy](http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl-f-word.htm)
BTW, STOP = Shouldn’t Tease Our Policemen. I think I learned that in third grade.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021/19 "2011-06-20T01:06:07Z")
Quoth **LSLGuy** :
> [@](#):
>
> Heck, laser is word-ified to the point that nobody spells it LASER anymore. Ditto RADAR vs radar.
More than that, it’s back-formed the word “lase”, a verb meaning basically “what a laser does”. And “laser” itself is used as an ingredient for other acronyms, like LISA, the Laser Interferometry Space Antenna.
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### Author:  [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acronym/586021/20 "2011-06-20T01:07:15Z")
> [@StephenG](#):
>
> \*Correct answer: You rephrase the sentence, of course, to avoid the issue.
NEVER! That is a lame excuse used by prescriptivists when they’ve painted themselves into a corner by forbidding perfectly cromulent methods of communicating.
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