# Action movies with intelligent heroes **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 30, 2004, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892 "2004-06-30T15:08:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892/21 "2004-06-30T19:12:55Z")
do zombie movies count? while it’s difficult to spot intelligent heroes, the zombies certainly need brains… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892/22 "2004-06-30T19:27:51Z")
Zeus may or may not be formally educated, but he’s certainly very well self-educated. I’d lay even odds that he’s read all of Shakespeare’s plays. Well, I would, if there were any way to settle the bet. And **Priceguy** , John Wayne (tough-guy patriotic actor) is a slightly different person than Bruce Wayne (psychotic playboy millionaire with a fetish for flying rodents). ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892/23 "2004-06-30T19:30:38Z")
“Then how come heroes beat educated villains all the time?” For the same reason that the high school bully beats the crap out of the class nerd - because he can. There are many reasons why you don’t see this in action movies. First of all, the American role model is a likeable, easy-going, hard-working guy who gets shit done through luck and perseverance. It isn’t some pompous, aristocratic Eurotrash quoting Shakespear. People want to see an underdog triumph and it’s hard to portray someone with an IQ of 200 as an underdog. An action hero can be smart, but he is a man of ACTION first. He can always defer to his cultured sidekick - The Marcus to Indiana Jones, the Q to James Bond or the Arthemus Gordon to Jim West. In order to get the job done, the action hero must defy reason and logic. The evil genius creates the perfect plans. The action hero foils them by doing the one thing no one in his right mind would do. You can’t do that AND be overly intellectual. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892/24 "2004-06-30T19:40:32Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > Then how come heroes beat educated villains all the time? Hubris, baby, hubris. Pride cometh, and all that. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892/25 "2004-06-30T20:25:01Z")
William Wallace from **Braveheart** perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892/26 "2004-06-30T20:29:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Zeus may or may not be formally educated, but he’s certainly very well self-educated. I’d lay even odds that he’s read all of Shakespeare’s plays. Well, I would, if there were any way to settle the bet. Really? He’s an electrician living in Harlem. > [@](#): > > And **Priceguy** , John Wayne (tough-guy patriotic actor) is a slightly different person than Bruce Wayne (psychotic playboy millionaire with a fetish for flying rodents). I know. Did I somehow imply that I didn’t? Does Batman often face off against German officers who quote Goethe? Oh, and bats aren’t rodents. But I’m pretty sure you knew that. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892/27 "2004-06-30T20:38:16Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > I know. Did I somehow imply that I didn’t? Of course. Nobody brought up John Wayne until you did with your rebuttal. And you started the post with “Really?”, implying a response to the previous poster, Mr. B, who brought up Bruce Wayne but never mentioned the Duke. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892/28 "2004-06-30T20:43:18Z")
Clarice Starling in “Silence of the Lambs” is very intelligent, and much smarter than “Buffalo Bill” - the killer on the loose she tracks down. (Starling is also apparently much smarter than her FBI mentor, who gets bamboozled by that barely literate nutjob and stakes out the wrong house.) Okay, Hannibal Lecter IS smarter, but he at least has genuine respect for her intelligence. Morgan Freeman’s character in “Se7en” is particularly intelligent, resourceful and culturally sophisticated. Ironically, Ripley in the “Aliens” series is much smarter than her adversaries (the aliens), but not much smarter than the average action movie star. At least she’s smarter than the damn nameless company she works for - the one that, time and again, is trying to obtain a specimen of these alien killing machines, only to see one expedition team after another get wasted by the slimy things. Do the CEOs of this future interplanetary trucking company really think it might be cost-effective to obtain an alien, given the billions of dollars they wasted four times in a row trying to get their hands on one? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892/29 "2004-06-30T22:23:22Z")
How anout _The Road Warrior_? Mel Gibson looks like an Einstein compared to the drooling moron evil guys. And among the more obscure: _The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension_. I remember the hero was an intellectual scientist, but I can’t remember the nature of the villains. And for a blast from the past: the _Thin Man_ films. Nick Charles was certainly an intellectual, if a drunk as well. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892/30 "2004-06-30T22:34:37Z")
Gandalf, of course. Wisest being in Middle Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892/31 "2004-06-30T23:38:27Z")
John Cusack in _Grosse Point Blank_ is much more introspective and intellectual than his nemesis in the film, Dan Aykroyd. Of course, Cusack is playing a hitman in the movie, so he’s not exactly a “hero.” ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892/32 "2004-07-01T00:06:37Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > John Cusack in _Grosse Point Blank_ is much more introspective and intellectual than his nemesis in the film, Dan Aykroyd. Of course, Cusack is playing a hitman in the movie, so he’s not exactly a “hero.” He qualifies/ He’s a hero, because he’s redeemed by love. Well. okay, he was getting tired of the hitman biz anyway. Whatever, he stopped being a hitman and saved his next intended victim. I wonder how a retired hitman spends his time. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892/33 "2004-07-01T00:11:32Z")
> [@Boyo Jim](#): > > And for a blast from the past: the _Thin Man_ films. Nick Charles was certainly an intellectual, if a drunk as well. There’s no arguing that Nick is a sophisticate, but that’s different than being an intellecutal (and even so, most of his personal friends are thugs; he’s a socialite largely by assoction through Nora). ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892/34 "2004-07-01T00:46:15Z")
Well, he’s a TV character, rather than a movie character, but Spenser was always quoting some poet or philosopher, when he wasn’t beating a bad guy to a pulp (heck, Robert B. Parker named Spenser after an Elizabethan poet!). ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892/35 "2004-07-01T01:12:26Z")
Day of the Condor. Robert Redford’s character is quite smart. Although his nemisis is the CIA, which isn’t staffed with dummies. Bourne Identity has that going for it as well. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892/36 "2004-07-01T01:23:34Z")
Star Trek III. The evil head Klingon, Krug (Christopher Guest), though cunning, is anything but intelligent and well-bred; Captain Kirk is definitely a cut above him, education-wise, though he’s hardly one to quote Shakespeare. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892/37 "2004-07-01T01:47:34Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Gandalf, of course. Wisest being in Middle Earth. Saruman’s at least equally intelligent and pretty urbane / elitist to boot. Gandalf’s comparatively down to Earth and folksy. How about Aubrey / Maturin from Master and Commander - put em together and you’ve got both cunning and intellectualism… ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892/38 "2004-07-01T03:28:01Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Star Trek III. The evil head Klingon, Krug (Christopher Guest), though cunning, is anything but intelligent and well-bred; Captain Kirk is definitely a cut above him, education-wise, though he’s hardly one to quote Shakespeare. Pacard is the more Shakespearean captain. IIRC, Christopher Lloyd was the evil Klingon captain in III. The Klingon Commander in VI tended to quote the great “Klingon” poet Shakespear a lot while Khan used to quote Melville. The only memoriable James T quote was KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892/39 "2004-07-01T03:59:39Z")
> [@Boyo Jim](#): > > And among the more obscure: _The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension_. I remember the hero was an intellectual scientist, but I can’t remember the nature of the villains. Well, Buckaroo Banzai was a parody of the wish-fulfillment nature of action heroes: in addition to being the world’s greatest crimefighter, he was the world’s greatest brain surgeon, the world’s greatest inventor and lead singer in the world’s greatest rocknroll band. The enemy aliens were a bunch of comic-opera buffoons led by a crazed genius, i.e., the alien aka Emilio Lizardo. But given the parodic nature of BB, I don’t think he fits comfortably with the characters he parodies. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892/40 "2004-07-01T04:02:15Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Well, he’s a TV character, rather than a movie character, but Spenser was always quoting some poet or philosopher, when he wasn’t beating a bad guy to a pulp (heck, Robert B. Parker named Spenser after an Elizabethan poet!). In the novels, it’s made clear that Spenser is basically a tough guy though a very smart one. In fact, it’s his native intelligence combined with willingness to use lethal force that makes him a successful tough guy. His feeling for poetry he got second-hand from his English professor girlfriend. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/action-movies-with-intelligent-heroes/252892.md?page=3)